Konnor’s Back. The Pirates Have One Last Chance.

Yo! Welcome to the North Shore Nine Podcast presented by FanDuel. This is the NS9 Live Show. I'm your host, Anthony DiNardo. With me, we've got Jim. And Jim, I'm your host, Anthony DiNardo.

Guess who we don't have on tonight?

He was talking. He was talking smack for weeks because I think two weeks ago I wasn't on. Last week you weren't on. He was just going on and on and on about how he doesn't miss a show.

Oh. Huh. Guess who's not here tonight? No, Tyler. Mr. Restricted List Tyler.

Yeah. Yeah. Look at that. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? I guess it's Bucco Brew 2.0 this week, huh?

I guess so. I guess so. No, Tyler. Hey, that just means less bad takes. So I hear.

It's one third less bad takes than what there normally would be. Yeah. There it is. Yeah. The people are for it. But no, for real. Welcome to the show.

Pirates. I'm playing some pretty good baseball. Some things are happening tomorrow. Some things have already happened and transpired.

And what, they've taken five out of the six past series, which end up going, what, 13 and 10 in that time frame?

Because when the series are swept, they haven't swept anyone else, really.

So they've gone 13 and 10 over the last, what, six series?

So there's that. 12 and 10.

12 and 10.

Wait.

It was 10 and 8. It was 10 and 8. Yeah. 10 and 8 over the last six series.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, then I was off. I won.

Yeah.

But either way, here we are. Here we are.

The three games under.

Three games under 500, five games out of a playoff spot.

I was looking three weeks ago when we did this show.

it was right after the Marlin series and our graphic for the show, looking at it right now, it said it is over.

Yeah, it is over is what the graphic said on that show.

So, yeah, they were, they were out of it at that point.

Like they were, they were done.

They, the season, the season was practically over playoff odds stumbled.

I think all the way down to 4% at that chain at that point.

What's crazy is like playoff odds still haven't gotten any better.

They're hovering right around 2% right now.

But like you said, like they're, they are playing pretty good ball right now.

Like outside that Dodger series, they've won five of six series.

It's still not quite enough to get back into contention.

Like we're not, we're not there yet, but like, I'm like, we're not here to say this team is going to the post season, but I think they've at least done enough to, I don't know,

at least like just the game still matter, right?

They still matter at this point.

And I guess looking back three weeks ago, I didn't think we'd still be at this point.

Like they've, they played better than I would have anticipated.

Yeah.

Well, they have a lot better.

The schedule has gotten easier for them.

And we talked about the brutal schedule in June, how they had to get through that.

And if they can do so.

And they did with flying colors.

I thought they played very well through June, given the circumstances, of course, the as Merdlin's as mergence of Esmerlyn Valdez, helped them in there.

But, they had like this second stretch of really tough games, which was coming at a time where they were really struggling and they didn't get through it.

they crumbled.

And so now they're getting the better part of the schedule and they have played better baseball.

The bullpen has been outstanding.

again, we definitely liked the trade deadline in the bullpen side of things.

They certainly shorted up.

Weaver came over.

And although Weaver hasn't come over as you probably expected, everyone else has done well.

And again, that's not to say Andrew or Andrew, it's not to say Luke Weaver is bad by any means, right?

Like he's a good reliever.

He just, the RA doesn't look good on paper.

I just had a couple of pirates, but everyone else has done a fantastic job.

And the left-handed bats are still an issue or as you can say, bats versus left-handed pitching is still an issue.

but that's gotten a little bit better.

Oneil Cruz coming back now.

Oneil Cruz has been on a tear.

So like, yeah, things are starting to piece a little bit together here.

They played better baseball.

They haven't made up a whole ton of ground, but they've had a little bit of help with the Padres losing some downbacks losing some.

there's still five back though.

Like there's still five back with 21 games left.

Still a huge hill.

You got to climb up to, you don't control your own destiny.

You need help from other people, but you still have a lot that you need to control here.

Yeah.

just a snapshot of where they're at right now.

They're 69 and 72, 21 games left.

You're five games behind the diamondbacks.

You are four and a half behind the Padres.

You're two and a half behind the Marlins.

You're one and a half behind the Cardinals.

So not only do you need to reel off an incredible stretch here, but you've got to be better than the Cardinals, the Marlins, the Padres and the diamondbacks by multiple games.

So it's not looking great right now by means.

but Bernardo, as they say, on the princess bride, right?

There's a big difference between all dead and mostly dead and mostly dead means slightly alive.

Bernardo.

There you go.

The pirates are certainly on life support.

no one's pulling the plug as of yet, but family members are talking.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like arrangements.

We want to stop the suffering.

There's the funeral home has been called like, yeah.

Right.

Right.

I'll get this last right.

So you got your will and Testament completed.

are we, are we good on that aspect of things?

Yeah.

no, you're right.

again, like they're still particularly in it.

It's there five games out, but again, this is what makes things tough.

It's not as if they're chasing one team there.

there's technically four above them that they have to surpass.

Now, of course the Cardinals, you can probably look past them and that's safe.

technically there's four teams.

They have to be better than now the Cardinals.

They have to be better than the Cardinals.

Like, well, they do.

And we've been saying all season long, you can envision that happening, but we've been saying all season long, this Cardinals team, isn't any good.

This Cardinals team is any good.

And they've just been, they've been ahead of us the whole time by like a game or two.

And they just keep, they just keep being there.

The pirates haven't been ahead of the Cardinals in a while.

Right.

No, I get that.

But I'm just, what I'm alluding to is you could, you could comfortably say, I can see the Cardinals being worse than the pirates on game one 62 that come to fruition and not really bad at eye.

No one's really arguing that.

But again, that's stop one.

There's also Miami, as you mentioned, who this one was the same thing, like Miami had no expectations coming into the season and they did a little bit of everything at the trade deadline.

They trade some pieces.

They stood pat.

I would say, they didn't really go for it, but they're still, they're still winning baseball games.

And then once you beat them, you got to also surpass the Padres.

And once you surpass them, you got to surpass the diamondback.

So there's a lot of factors ahead of you that like, they all have to pan out while you're also doing the work that you need to do that you've really not done at all this season.

So yeah, there's a lot.

And again, we can break down the numbers here, but if you want to go any further on that, yeah, I think we'll dive into that later on.

But I think the big thing here is, you've got, obviously winning five out of six series.

That's good.

You've got to continue to win series.

but we're now, setting our eyes on the angels who aren't a great team.

You just came off two out of three against the giants.

You would have loved to have a sweep there.

but the big story this weekend, DiNardo is the pirates are getting some reinforcements.

Ooh, their 20 year old shortstop, Konnor Griffin, Konnor Griffin's number one, number one prospect in all of baseball before the season.

He is going to be coming back tomorrow and they've missed him so much because the other, like a couple of weeks ago, we talked about like, what was the cause of this collapse?

Right.

And you brought up some numbers that, obviously we're seeing how much the pirates missed Oneil Cruz in the last couple of weeks, but you brought up the numbers like Jake Mangum filled in as admirably as he possibly could have in the, in the absence

of Oneil Cruz, right?

He hit over 300 OPS in the high seven hundreds was like third in the team and war during that time period.

Second.

But yeah, second.

Okay.

But no one filled in admirably for Konnor Griffin.

the shortstop position as a whole was a disaster.

You had Triolo, you had Gonzalez.

Triolo's picked it up a little bit here of late, but he's still not giving you anywhere near the production you need.

And Gonzalez has been a dumpster fire really since being acquired.

So getting Konnor Griffin back to not only lengthen the lineup, but add just that another just dynamic athlete to this team is it's a huge deal for these guys.

And it makes the defense a lot better on the left side.

Like it just, it's going to make this team a lot better.

I think having Konnor Griffin back.

Yeah.

And I'm just excited for him because unfortunately for him, I don't want to say it's a loss season, but it certainly isn't.

I'm sure what he wanted to gain out of it, especially since the fact that you were debating if he was going to be an opening day call up or when he was going to be, called up, especially at that spring training.

A lot of people were worried, not us, but a lot of people were worried on what he would be.

And again, we're fighting like, no, get this kid up here.

You need to develop, like this is what this type of prospect needs.

They need to see major league pitching, right?

Like you, the development still happens in the major leagues and that's still true today.

that's why I'm excited.

Even though there's just 21 games left, that's still 21 games that Konnor Griffin could certainly use under his belt when he goes into his next season to play baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

that's, there's still development happening.

He's not a final piece by any means.

And that's why losing him this season, again, for him, it's not a lost season per se.

I'm sure there's a lot he can still take away from it, but that's two and a half months worth of baseball.

He missed just for his own personal development to be the best player that he can be, of course.

And so, yeah, getting him back, I'm sure it's a good feeling, and again, players like to finish the season.

So the fact that he can say, I finished the season is a little bit of a memento in there.

Yeah.

I think that was one of the things I wanted to ask about was like, what is it that you really want to see out of Konnor Griffin this last month?

Because we really haven't seen him a whole lot, right?

He's had two IL stints already.

He's coming off a 60 day IL stint.

When he first got called up, you saw him burst onto the scene and then took him a little bit of time to adjust.

But then once he adjusted, it was like, man, he's like, I can't wait to watch this guy for the next 10, 11 years, right?

Or eight, nine, whatever it was.

I only, I only remember what the contract was now.

It was so long ago, but like just an exciting player to watch.

Right.

So I'm curious to see really how they, like, do they ease them back in?

Do they just start playing them every day?

Where in the lineup do they put them?

who goes, is it going to be York?

Is it going to be Gonzalez?

Who goes to triple AAA to make room for him?

Like I'm wondering all that, but like just from Konnor Griffin, I really want to see the, just the explosiveness and the athleticism that we saw from him the first half of the year.

I want to make sure like he's putting together good at bats.

The numbers aren't necessarily going to be all that important to me this last month.

Obviously I think he can still put up the numbers, but I just want to make sure he's, he's looks good.

He still has that same like game changing ability at times.

And we really need him to just play a good, solid defensive shortstop because that's something this team has just lacked desperately for a while.

So those are, those are the main things I want to see out of him.

Just like shore up the shortstop position, look good at the plate, like make it so that you don't seem lost up there.

And yeah, just like, give me some really cool dynamic moments here and there.

Yeah.

Well, I guess you asked like, what do you want to see?

And again, like he's still 20 years old and it's just 21 games.

He's coming after, an injury is out for two months.

It's the same thing.

I was talking about Oneil Cruz.

Now Oneil Cruz is a little bit different.

I don't, and again, understand where I'm coming from.

Oneil Cruz has swing and miss in his game.

Like he is a dynamic player.

He's a difference maker.

But I can absolutely understand.

That's why I was saying at the time, he's a guy who probably needs to get his timing down and might likely need a few games under his belt more than just a handful.

We got, with Altoona before he came up here to start just mashing it.

And he did it begins.

All odds that I thought, he didn't, I figured he was going to have an adjustment period.

Konnor Griffin, he's not the type of player Oneil Cruz is.

Like I could see the type of player that he is.

Like, I'm just going to come back in here and just start hitting where I left off with.

But he's also 20 years old.

He's barely past rookie status at this point in time.

So like, given that it's almost the same thing.

Like I could still see him still adjusting and getting back into the groove of things.

But again, like you don't want to put expectations on the kid.

Like you said, like if he does what you're saying, that's fine.

I want to put him into the fire though, just like they did with Oneil Cruz, because this is a team who is on left support, right?

And everyone in that clubhouse should be, have a common goal.

We're going to try to win every game that's in front of us.

And to do so, you need Konnor Griffin.

And especially versus lefties, like adding Cruz here was a big help in that now getting Konnor Griffin here can be a big part of that too.

I want to see him in the fire.

Like you're pretty much picking up where you left off.

Does that mean he's leading off some games?

Sure.

Sure.

I'm good at that.

I'm not on the one to say right now, like, Hey, you know what?

Let's ease them back in.

Let's put them seven to the lineup.

There's 21 games left.

If you're going to do what we're going to talk about later, right?

But if you're going to do what it takes to get this team into the playoffs, it has to only because Konnor Griffin is going off.

So give him and the team the opportunity for him to go off.

Yeah.

I'm curious.

I think the lineup is due for a shakeup anyways.

Spencer Horwitz has not been performing all that well.

Cruz has been batting fifth for the most part, and he's been just crushing the ball.

So I'm curious to see with Griffin back what the lineup looks like.

I would imagine against left-handed pitching, which the Pirates do face one lefty this weekend in Kikuchi.

If they face a lefty, I think you got to lead off with Konnor Griffin, which immediately, the last couple of weeks, they've been leading off Jared Triolo against lefties, right?

So it's like, that's an upgrade, right?

So lead off Griffin against lefties.

Against righties, I could see.

I feel like he was hitting somewhere like around sixth most nights, and I think that still probably makes sense.

Cruz, on the other hand, I do want to see them move him up a bit.

They need to get him more at-bats.

Like, oh, no, Cruz should be getting more at-bats than Spencer Horwitz right now.

So even if it's just flipping those two, like I'm doing that, but like Cruz needs to be getting more at-bats than anybody on this team right now.

That's fair.

So are you insinuating we need the catalyst back at leadoff?

I think that's what I'm insinuating.

It's Cruz versus righties and Connor versus lefties?

Yeah, so I think I would go like Cruz, Brandon Lowe, Reynolds, I guess you're sticking with him there.

Gonzalez has been batting cleanup lately, which, he's second in the league for the batting title.

The slugging is not really there, but everything else is.

And then maybe you drop Horwitz to five, Connor to six, and then Valdez is your seven-hitter most nights, right?

And then if Mangum's playing, you got, well, I guess you need a catcher and then a third baseman at that point.

So like, yeah, it just, at length, you're one through seven now, you're fearful of them.

Flores batting eighth, maybe.

Yeah, it's just a much better lineup now with Cruz and Griffin, that's for sure.

Right.

Yeah.

For sure.

So again, I'm excited to see him come back for multiple reasons.

But again, mostly just the fact that Konnor Griffin is an exciting player.

Yeah.

This season for what it is, again, there are three games under, this has been an interesting season for his entire time.

it certainly has.

That's the one that the Pirates have been an interesting team, unlike last year where not only were they bad, but also it was just boring baseball.

This year was at least they're entertaining.

And trust me, they're frustrating and frustration adds entertainment value.

I'll say that.

Right.

So that's part of it.

But, they're interesting.

And again, Konnor Griffin, there's a reason why he signed the contract he did.

He's loaded with talent to see that talent develop, come to fruition, see him back on the field.

Great kid, great baseball player.

Not a good little ball player, Jim.

He's a, he's a really good baseball player.

And, again, just excited to see what essentially, as weird as it sounds, could quickly become the face of the Pirates.

Cause I don't know if that's Paul Skenes anymore.

Well, you look at it like the angels are coming in town, right?

And so like, if you were going to make a graphic for this weekend series and it was, Mike Trout and the angels coming to face who and the pirates, like who's face that you're putting on that graphic.

I'm probably putting Konnor Griffin's face on that.

It's O'Neal.

It's O'Neal for me.

Or, and that's probably, if you're going to be like the just bland, that's perfect wording, the bland, like, I know, listen, it's still, it's Bryan Reynolds.

Cause he's the old Statesman.

He's still having a good season, even though it's been down currently.

Like, I feel like right now it's like Bryan Reynolds or Oneil Cruz.

Yeah.

it's not, no way.

He's been here for like 38 years though, Jim, even though he hasn't won it as a winning season yet.

I guess those are the two I would look at right now.

But, and again, that's just more or less because Konnor Griffin has been out.

Like he's still an afterthought at this point in time.

But what I'm alluding to is like, come next year, he very well could quickly become like that guy.

I see donut says Henry Davis.

Absolutely.

It's Henry Davis.

I'm excited for the pirates to be called Henry Davis locker room as well.

Yeah.

I'm really excited.

one-on-one way to runs created plus coming back.

He's already over one war 60 games.

Like in that time period before he got hurt to, he was like really turning it on.

It seemed like, and yeah, like the immediate upgrade to the shortstop position is just going to be great.

what do you think about third base?

Does just, does Nick Gonzales just get pretty much every start there?

Or are you putting Triolo in there for the glove a little bit, or I don't know.

I'm thinking Gonzalez still gets the majority of the playing time there.

This is, it's wild.

We're having this debate and talking and talking in this way.

Triolo's glove.

Very good.

Especially like at third base where he belongs, in that sense, very good glove.

Nick Gonzales has shown that glove is pretty damn bad at third base, but the bat, are you taking Nick Gonzales's bat regardless of the defense?

Are you taking the guy who's second in the batting title right now out of the lineup because of the glove?

No.

But then again, Triolo pumpkin spice Triolo, right?

It is September and against lefties.

You can make that argument.

But again, like I'm not taking Gonzalez out.

I guess the only thing I could think of is verse lefties.

Triolo's at third, Gonzalez at DH.

Or Gonzalez at second.

Then Brandon Lowe.

Or true.

Yeah.

goes to the bench or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's Triolo is now the lefty guy.

That's it.

That's the only time you'll see him.

Fingers crossed.

But with that answer too, I want to say like, no, Jacob Gonzalez.

So are you just sending Gonzalez down or does York go down or does Betancourt go down?

I think you keep Betancourt.

Just the fact that he's the catcher.

They like to have the depth and that makes sense.

Yeah.

if he's here today, I don't think.

Konnor Griffin coming up changes that.

I think like you mentioned, it's a Gonzalez or York thing.

To me, it's almost, you know what?

No, I take it back.

It's not even a flip of a coin.

It's York.

Like I have more faith in Nick Yorke being the 27th man on this team than Gonzalez.

Cause Gonzalez is just, I'm sorry.

He's just not cutting it defensively, offensively.

It's been bad.

I have more faith in York.

And plus, not that it's needed, but he can just play more positions.

I am going the opposite.

I think I'm sending York down and I'm doing it more for just like the bat off that, like the lefty bat off the bench.

Cause the one thing this team won't have is a lefty bat off the bench most nights.

So I'm keeping, I'm keeping Gonzalez up just for that alone.

Whereas there's going to be right-handed batters available.

So that are going to be ahead of York anyways.

Let's put it this way.

Yeah.

I can easily be talking to that, but again, we're talking about not the 26th man anymore.

Like we're essentially talking about the 20, like it's a very instant, 27th man conversation right now.

That if that's why fine, I don't anticipate either.

Like that move.

Isn't it going to make a break this team for the accomplishing the ultimate goal?

If they want to know, you never, a gym game one 62, Jacob Gonzalez is going to go and hit a four run shot.

Walk off to break the tiebreaker, get them into the playoffs.

anyways, again, I don't think, again, it's that significant.

If that's why you want to do it, I'm not going to have any argument again.

I'm not going to pound any table because Nick Yorke's here or Jacob Gonzalez, whichever you want to send.

I'm fine.

Yeah.

All right.

But yeah, I'm excited.

Konnor Griffin back tomorrow and all signs point to Ryan O'Hearn being back a week from tomorrow as well.

So Cub series.

Yeah.

There, I said that there's a, I guess you could say this is an important stretch just in the terms of they're mostly dead and not completely dead.

And they're getting as healthy as they've been all year.

Yeah.

Next week when O'Hearn comes back, that's when the arm comes out of the dirt, right?

Like the cemetery.

Yeah.

Yeah.

yeah, like there is that now, of course, it's still a week of baseball to play to get to that point about where they're at that point.

But again, it's pretty advantageous.

You have the angels up, but like, again, here's the thing about the situation they're in, right?

With 21 games left, five games under.

And again, we'll talk about the tiebreakers.

So if you haven't already, it's five games, but theoretically it's probably six because if you tie one of the other two, you've lost the tiebreaker.

So you've got to outright be ahead of them in the standings to win the wild card.

Most likely again, we'll get more in the details.

that's tough ground to make up.

Where was I just going?

Oh yeah.

The angels, like this, you have to find sweeps.

You really need to find the sweeps.

This is one of those series that's how you have to look at it.

like it's probably not coming from the Cubs.

It's probably not coming from the Brewers.

It's, there's a finite amount of series that are left.

You got to pick some that you're really going to get ground on.

That's what the angels present themselves.

You take two out of three, like that's fine.

But that's how you find yourself.

You have this dramatic run at the end, still one or two games behind and not in that spot.

The angels is, this is a team you got to sweet.

Yeah.

the math is tough, right?

You're 21 games left.

You're three games under 500 to just finish 500.

You've got to go 12 and nine, right?

If you win two out of three games, the rest of the way.

So you just take, you just, let's say you just win every series, two out of three, two out of three, two out of three.

You go 14 and seven, you go 14 and seven and you finish with 83 wins.

That's not enough.

Like some years it's enough.

I don't think it's going to be enough this year.

You've got the diamondbacks right now are seven games over 500.

The Padres are six games over 500.

So, you're going to need a lot of help if you want to get in with 83 wins.

So then you, yeah, like you said, you've got to find sweeps here and you're not just a sweep.

Like you got to find sweeps, the plural 15 and six gets you to 84 wins.

maybe you're like, you still need a lot of help to get into the playoffs with 84 wins.

And I want to say, yeah, like just put in perspective, right?

Just talk about the teams at the 83, the Pirates going 14 and seven.

That means two out of every three absolutely winning.

That also means the teams ahead of you, that St. Louis for them to also be the 83 mark, St. Louis has to be worse than 13 and nine.

Because, again, you've got to be ahead.

Well, yeah, you've got to be ahead.

Miami, that's 12 and 10.

They've got to be worse than that.

San Diego needs to be worse than 10 and 12.

And the Diamondbacks need to be worse than 9 and 12.

Again, when it comes down to it's probably that San Diego needs to be worse than 9 and 12.

And the Diamondbacks need to be worse than 8.

Okay, so you weren't even accounting for the tiebreaker there.

Right, that's just everyone's 83 win mark.

Yeah.

Yeah, in order for you to get in.

So, again, San Diego 10 and 12, I'm sorry.

And then Padres, I'm sorry.

Padres 10 and 12, Diamondbacks 9 and 12.

So, to get in with 83 wins, you would need the Padres to go 9 and 13, probably.

And the Diamondbacks to go, what?

Well, 8.

8 and 13.

8 and 13?

Yeah.

So, again, it's going to be very hard.

85 wins maybe gets you a little bit more comfortable.

But even then, you've got to go 16 and 5.

That's winning more than 3 out of 4.

86 wins, which is probably realistically what you need.

17 and 4.

You've got 7 series left.

17 and 4 means you've got to sweep 3.

And you've got to take 2 out of 3 in every other one.

Right.

So, it's tough sledding.

But, again, mostly dead.

Slightly alive.

That's what that means.

And, yeah, you've got a 53 and 87 Angels team coming in.

And if you have any hope of doing anything here, like, if you have any hope in making this thing even, like, something worth seriously discussing, you've got to sweep this series.

You've got to sweep it.

You can't lose a home game to a shitty Angels team and go 16 and 5.

But, again, like, that's the situation they're in, right?

Like, if this was in June, no one's batting an eye if they go 2 and 3 versus the Angels.

You want a series.

That's what it's all about winning as many series as you can.

They haven't done that, unfortunately, for the season now.

So, they're up against the wall where they can't just win series anymore.

They need to sweep.

Because you have the Angels, like you said, 379 winning percentage.

Then it's the White Sox, 521 winning percentage.

Then the Cubs, 557.

Then the Brewers, 621.

By the way, those are the two remaining division games that the Pirates have.

We talked about tiebreakers, right?

After that, it comes down to the tiebreaker.

The Padres and Diamondbacks have a better in-division series record than the Pirates currently.

The Pirates have the toughest two teams on the remaining part of the schedule is in-division.

So, they...

You almost...

They're talking about, like, you need sweeps here.

You almost probably need to sweep one of those to have a chance.

Because if you're going to entertain even the tiebreaker, you know what?

Yeah.

you look at the tiebreaker.

Like, the Padres...

The Padres are in play, right?

Because the Padres are 22-17 in their division.

The Pirates are 22-21.

And really, to get to the point where the tiebreakers even matter, it means the Pirates won a bunch of games and the Padres lost a bunch of games.

So, you could see that difference being made up there.

The Diamondbacks, though, it's going to be tough.

The Diamondbacks are 28-18 in division.

That's 10 games over .500.

I don't know if the Pirates can possibly beat out the Diamondbacks for that second wild card...

For that second tiebreaker.

So, like, yeah, maybe the Padres are in play there.

But, like, the Pirates are going to have to be better than the Diamondbacks.

Right.

And the thing is, the Padres, they play the Rockies for four games in their in-division at a 386-20%.

So, like, again, the Pirates also are facing their in-division that's remaining is the toughest on their schedule, where the easy part for the Padres is the in-division.

So, again, like, you could imagine, they could take two out of four from them.

They could at least just split the series, and it's probably lights out for the tiebreaker at that point in time.

So, again, like, they have the Giants and the Rockies, and the Diamondbacks also have the Rockies as well.

So, you already talked about that in-division record.

So, yeah, like, the thing is, it's already five games, but, again, you have to look at this.

It's really probably six games, because if you even phase out and don't even look at the Marlins and the Cardinals, and it's just those two, they have you on the tiebreaker.

You can't just tie.

So, that's what we talk about.

If they go 14-7, if they're a playoff team in 83 wins, which is, like, bare bottom, all of you, shit, how that happened, they can't even allow the Padres and Diamondbacks to be

that.

They have to be 500 baseball teams.

So, like, everyone else in the National League needs to be 500 and under for the Pirates to even be in the playoffs by going two out of three the rest of the way.

That's what it comes down to.

Yeah.

Now, again, you got this series coming up.

Liz, I think you have to sweep it.

According to FanDuel DiNardo, the Pirates are the second heaviest favorite on the entire slate tomorrow, behind just the Dodgers.

They're minus 196 is the money line against the Angels tomorrow.

So...

Give me that, Manziel.

They are heavy favorites going into this weekend.

They probably will be heavy favorites all three games.

And, yeah, they got to find a way to win them all.

Yeah.

They do.

They do.

Let me ask you that, because there's a...

Yeah, so a couple questions here.

Like, again, I don't think either...

Like, we're having this conversation, but we're saying it in a way of, like...

This is why it's impossible.

It's not...

It's pretty...

Improbable.

It's very improbable.

Let's say this team wins two out of three the rest of the way.

Let's say they go 14 and seven.

They finish.

That puts them, what, 83 and 79?

Mm-hmm.

They miss the playoffs by two games.

Right?

Someone here asked a question.

PSC Donut.

Does...

That would...

That's a winning record.

83 and 79.

Does that...

Does that bring Ben Cherington back?

We had this conversation before the season.

And, again, it's been stated.

Playoffs is the expectations.

Well, period.

Stop.

Like, stop...

Period.

That's the saying.

That's the saying.

I know it's overused.

Whatever.

Right?

But, that's the goal.

Now, we did talk about before the season, if they miss that goal, what's the barometer?

Like, how far can you miss it?

What excuses can you have?

What still allows this tenure to continue?

And...

If they do 14 and seven the rest of the way, and they do just barely miss it, I could see it happening.

Like, I could see...

It's still excuses to some level about the injuries.

Because we talked about it on Bucco Brew, and I'll be more than happy to dive more into it.

But, when you look at the replacements, again, Konnor Griffin was the biggest hurt.

Next to that was Oneil Cruz.

Let me add on to that a little bit.

Oneil Cruz has 2.4 war this year.

In the amount of games that he's played, he's averaging 0.031 war a game.

He missed 58 games.

If you take what he's been averaging, right?

If you take what his production is, his expected war in the time frame he was out was 1.8 war.

What did we mention?

Jake Mangum gave 1.2 war.

Minus 0.6 war.

like, that's what I'm saying.

Like, as far as a replacement, like, if you're talking about, like, oh my god, we had this injury, he's one of our best players, the world must be falling, the sky is falling, the world's ending.

Jake Mangum put up a respectable replacement.

He gave you 1.2 war in that time that Oneil Cruz was out.

And again, Esmerlyn Valdez actually gave more war than what Hearn and Horwitz have given you.

Like, he actually helped the team be better than what they were with those guys.

I'm not saying he's a better person.

I'm not saying, like, they'll give you those guys because Merlin's here.

But what I'm saying is, what Merlin did was better than what those two were doing.

That didn't hurt you.

Ironically, that loss helped you.

You actually had a better player with a loss of O'Hearn and Spencer Horwitz in that time frame.

So, when you take all the expected war from what the players have done this season and what the replacements have done, we're talking about Endy as well with Joey Bart.

We're talking about Rafael Flores with Endy as well.

We're talking about Konnor Griffin, everyone.

The Pirates have lost two war, two projected war, two wins.

Like, that's not detrimental.

Now, you can argue.

Well, why was it just two war?

Well, it's because of the depth that Cherington actually did provide.

that does help in his favor.

So, I don't know, man.

Like, I can be talked into it if they don't fire him because, like, hey, we just missed it.

We had a winning season, and I know that's not the results.

That was the expectations given, and the talk of the talk and whatever.

There's still enough here.

But, again, they have to go 14-7 the rest of the way, and they really haven't done that over a 21-game stretch this year.

Yeah, it's a hard question to answer because, in one stance, like, that's a 12-game improvement from the previous season, which is, that is a tangible thing, right?

Like, this team got substantially better if this were to happen.

But, on the other hand, seven years is a long time.

A long time.

And this is an organization that hasn't been to the postseason since 2015.

It's the Obama administration, DiNardo.

Like, back then, people were getting mad at it.

You love presidencies.

Back then, people were getting mad at the president when, like, they were wearing a tan suit, right?

And, like, see how far we've gone from the tan suit to today, right?

Just as a society.

We need Ben to come out in a tan suit.

We need Ben to rock the tan suit, yeah.

But it's just...

It's just not enough, right?

Like, at some point, the results speak for themselves.

And...

I'm with you.

If you can't do it in seven years, why do you deserve an eighth, right?

I think if this happens, like, if the Pirates truly end the year on a hot streak, they finish 83-79, they miss the postseason by two games, you basically just say,

you know what, Ben?

I appreciate what you did here.

You put the organization in a better spot now than where it was when you came in.

But, it's been seven years.

It's time for us to move on.

We got to get someone else who can get us over that hump.

So, I'm still on the fire.

I'm on the fire everyone train, to be honest with you, if they don't make the postseason.

I think Ben's got to go.

I think Travis's got to go.

Well, when you say everyone, like, do you mean those two, as far as everyone?

at least those two.

Okay.

Because, like, there's still certainly pieces in this organization that I think are very productive.

Yeah, I think they're at the top.

Yeah, I'm with you.

I'm with you.

It's in a better spot now than it was.

But, sure.

Those two people need replaced.

Two things can be true.

At least those two people.

Some critical thinking skills.

You can say, like, you've done a good job building.

You just haven't done a good job completing.

You're not, you haven't done a good job finishing.

What matters is the MLB team.

You can build a farm system.

You can do all these things, but can you give us a winning product?

What is going to put money in Bob's pockets?

Winning baseball.

It's a business.

What brings good business?

Winning baseball.

In the world of sports, right?

Entertaining a good product is what puts money in my pockets.

And if you're not going to be able to do that, then I need to find somebody else.

And, again, I think it was certainly a slow start.

And, again, like, I still don't, he hasn't been tremendous at trades.

That's probably why it was such a slow start as well, even though he was all gung-ho and we're going to be winning a lot closer than fans think.

Like, back in 2022.

Well, now it's 2026.

And we're still at this situation right now where it is September 3rd.

3rd.

You know?

And we're talking about the team that has to go 14-7, the bare minimum, to hopefully maybe get the playoffs.

Probably more like a 16-5 or even more, right?

So, yeah, like, you need a closer.

I'm not, like, they're not going to get him.

But, like, this is where Dave Dombrowski comes in.

this is where Dave Dombrowski comes in and says, you know what?

You guys did a fine job here, but I'm going to take it to the next step.

I'm going to get you to where you want to be.

So, I'm certainly on your side.

What I am alluding to is I can see a scenario now where they could say, we're going to allow you to go an eighth.

And you can be talked into it.

Again, it doesn't mean I agree, but it's not as if they had another 76-win team and they're bringing them back.

At that point in time, I'm up in arms.

My other counterpoint to you is, like, oh, it's a tangible 12-win improvement.

Well, you shouldn't have been at 71 wins last year when you went back-to-back at 76-2 years beforehand.

The going backwards last year was also a you problem.

You're really only at a seven-game improvement from four seasons ago.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah, I could see.

I could see, like, we've already, we already know what the excuses would be, right?

Like, if they finished 83 and 79, we already know what the excuses would be.

But, like, it's not time for excuses anymore.

How many more years can you have?

Right.

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All right.

So this weekend, Angels.

One lefty.

Angels have a 22-year-old righty going as well up against Paul Skenes.

Pirates need Paul Skenes to not stink, right?

But you know what hasn't stunk, DiNardo?

My farts.

The Pirates bullpen.

Pirates bullpen has been pretty awesome.

Since the trade deadline, DiNardo, Pirates bullpen is second in baseball in war.

They are seventh in baseball in ERA at 3.28.

They've only blown two saves.

Not bad.

So yeah, they've been a lot better.

And I think we saw that today with the bullpen game.

Monday, I guess it was Tuesday, notwithstanding, with the disaster of Evan Sisk and Luke Weaver and Yohan Ramirez.

Thankfully, the offense bailed them out.

But yeah, this has been a pretty good unit overall.

Sadly, Kirby Aits went down.

He's on the IL today.

But you saw Curtis come up.

He pitched well today.

Got himself his first Major League win.

I would imagine you'll probably see some shuffling back and forth there.

But yeah, this team didn't do anything to address the left-handed woes at the deadline.

They didn't do anything to address the starting pitching.

Mlodzinski apparently seems to be back in the bullpen.

Like an actual bullpen pitcher.

Yeah, so I'm wondering if the Pirates are just going to roll with four starters the rest of the year.

I almost feel like that's, especially with expanded rosters, you've got 14 pitchers on the staff.

You're probably just rolling with four starters the rest of the year and then having a bullpen game every fifth day.

Honestly, they've done it with just two starters.

And they played some of the best baseball they had.

So maybe four is the way.

No, in all seriousness, I think I'm okay with it.

I think this is like the best case scenario for them because they've got it worked out.

They have four starters that are capable-ish.

And I say that because Braxton Ashcraft is a stud.

he is a beast.

I have nothing but full faith in him going the rest of the way.

Paul Skenes has his warts now.

Bubba Chandler's been better.

But again, he's a rookie.

Like this deserrant count, like, okay, listen, we got 21 games left.

We need you to be the shutdown guy.

Again, you're treating this as a playoff.

It's the same thing with Konnor Griffin.

Like, I can't just expect him to be shut out the rest of the way.

again, he's a young, inexperienced pitcher in his first full season.

But I anticipate he'll be good.

so again, there's Paul Skenes that I'm worried on.

And then, of course, Jared Jones, who, like, just, he's looked magnificent.

He's looked like the best pitcher on the planet.

And then he's also looked like a guy that's like, ooh, maybe he should have gone to the bullpen.

So you have to trust all four of those.

There's no one else at that I do trust at all.

Antwone Kelly pitched a nice outing today at AAA.

You talk about the guys coming up and down.

But it's like none of those guys, like your Kelly, your Dottels, I don't know if I trust them in, like, a true starter role.

But what this team does have is bullpen arms that can give you length.

Bachar's doing a fantastic job at this role, giving you two to three innings.

again, like, what, seven out of nine appearances he's made, which, by the way, really good stuff.

He's gone two or more innings with.

Or Mlodzinski, can do that.

if you do have your Dotel up here, Khristian Curtis, whatever, like they did today.

Like, I honestly think rolling three relievers like they did today to give you six to seven innings and then give me your Montgomery and whomever was available at that point in time.

Like, that's probably the best way to win that fifth game.

Yeah, once you look at this bullpen, the way it's shaping out, like, Dotel, Bachar, Mlodzinski, that those are all guys that can go three innings or so.

So maybe you morph those three guys and then throw Khristian Curtis in there, too.

He's in the mix now.

I don't know how long he'll be up, but between those four guys, you can morph them into your fifth starter.

And just on top of that, yeah, on top of that, Antwone Kelly is still also, yeah, an option.

On top of that, you're also going to need some innings because, like old soldier here says, like, Braxton Ashcraft is above his innings.

his most innings pitched ever.

So I don't know if you can, like, consistently throw Ashcraft out there seven innings every time.

So, like, maybe Ashcraft is just going five from here on out.

You mentioned Jared Jones.

Jared Jones made five starts in August.

He went five innings once.

Yeah, I guess that's a super bullpen game.

Yeah, like, so they're going to need guys to pitch innings.

So, like, that's where Bachar and Mlodzinski and Curtis and Dotel, that's where they can provide some value because you're going to need guys to pitch those middle innings and multiple innings at a time to get to the back end of your bullpen.

Especially if you are, if you're winning the game or it's a close game, like, they're going to have to get quality innings out of those guys.

So, I think that's the best route right now just because I don't know if I trust a fifth starter.

Like, I don't know if I, there's no one there right now where I'm like, yes, go take the ball every fifth day.

I'd be fine if they wanted to give Curtis a shot.

I'd be fine if they wanted to give Hal Barco a shot.

he started zero major league games so far in his career.

Like, maybe you give him one shot.

I wouldn't mind giving Kelly a shot.

I wouldn't mind giving Dotel a shot.

Like, I wouldn't mind giving these guys a shot.

But I feel like all of those guys are more effective when you're like, hey, just go out there and give me three to four innings or two to three innings.

They become a lot more effective.

Like, I don't know if you saw, who saw Antwone Kelly's latest single inning relief outing.

But, he's throwing 103.

Like, he's topping 102.

He looks really good.

So, like, I don't want Antwone Kelly pitching more than one inning because he just, he seems like he's a lot better used that way.

Carmen Mlodzinski, I don't want him pitching five innings because he's better off pitching two to three.

Same with Dotel.

Like, he's got to put him in the best spot and there's enough arms that you can at least piece it together for these last three and a half weeks.

Yeah, but again, I say like, again, I bring up Kelly because I just think they're going to play the up and down game.

they've done it this year and now that September, you can carry an extra pitcher.

So that helps them, but they're going to use all these arms to get them through.

And again, what's advantageous about it is they're all, I think, very capable and I'm confident in all of them in those one to three inning spurts, which is what you're going to need.

None of these guys are simply just one inning relievers.

The Pirates have at their disposal, a plethora of guys and go two to three.

And that's, what's going to be good for them in this route.

Again, I think like you mentioned, what's going to be best for them is the four man rotation with a bullpen game.

That probably gives them the best chances to win.

And they have again, a numerous, again, you mentioned Barco.

That is another one.

If Barco is up here to give you like the two innings as a lefty, to do the righty lefty, whatever play like I'm fine with that.

I think having Bachar and Barco and like an Antwone Kelly for five to six innings is going to be better than whoever you decide to start for five to six innings.

And they're probably not making it there.

So you're going to the bullpen anyways, like you mentioned.

So yeah, I think that gives them the best chance to win.

And they're going to have, again, a bunch of guys can go up and down and you play the game and you're coming at the end of the year.

You can do so with the extra guys on their roster as well.

Yeah.

And the other thing too, I like about this bullpen is like, I don't know if there's going to be baseball next year.

I don't know what baseball is going to look like next year, but a lot of these guys are going to be hanging around.

So, Montgomery will be back.

Weaver will be back.

Mlodzinski might be back if you don't trade him.

Bachar's back.

Doval is under contract.

Doval is going to be eligible for arbitration.

So it was like, do you bring him back?

But, you'll have Dotel, you'll have Kelly, you'll have Yohan Ramirez.

So like, yeah, you've got a lot of guys who are coming back next year.

And this bullpen is looking a lot better now than it did last year.

So you're much more confident in this group going into next year.

They were of last year's group coming into very much.

So, yeah, because next year, this offseason, if you're looking at like, hey, what do I need to piece this thing together?

you probably need like another good lefty, right?

Like if Montgomery is your closer, you need another Gregory Soto type lefty to be that.

That lefty arm that to match up with batteries in the seventh or eighth inning.

But like outside that, like, I don't know if you really need all that much more.

Absolutely.

That itself is actually a good thing.

Like, I think that's why Doval's interesting in that sense.

Again, I want to see how he finishes this season.

But you have a stable of righties that you feel confident in that.

And what does, like, what does Doval line up to be next year?

If you already have Montgomery, who is looking like a lights out closer right now, the way he's performing, right?

Still want to see how he finishes out.

But stuff is electric, came in electric, advertised the walks.

The command has been so much better.

You have Weaver here who can be whatever, you know?

But that's your eighth inning guy.

Bachar's been producing.

Like, you have a stable of righties already.

Like, is it worth it to spend a seven to nine million or whatever it's going to cost to bring Doval back?

Like you mentioned, you probably want to invest into a lefty.

So that might be why Doval's the odd man out, which is unfortunate for him.

And you go that route.

But, right, like, you feel a lot better this year than last year.

It's like, well, Santana's never really close.

And he doesn't only have, like, electric stuff.

He's been fantastic.

One of the better relievers in baseball in this time frame.

The ERA's been outstanding, right?

But he doesn't have the repertoire, like the stuff that excites you like Montgomery does.

And then you just go down the list and you felt okay about it.

But no one, like, really made you feel really good about the bullpen.

And this year, it's much different.

I agree.

All right.

Well, are the Pirates going to sweep this weekend?

they could.

It's the Angels.

It's the Angels.

Like, they have to.

When you look in the sense of, like, the pitching matchups.

I know Kikuchi is a lefty.

Cruz will be there.

Konnor Griffin should be there.

So, like, hopefully it's not that detrimental to the Pirates that a lefty is pitching.

But also, like, it's...

Kikuchi's not the guy that he once was, by any means, either.

Now, again, that's never matter for this roster.

It's never mattered.

Yeah.

But it's not like it's a good lefty here.

They can and should...

No team...

I guess, again, it's baseball, right?

They have the abilities to sweep.

I'll keep it at that.

Yeah, I think they take two or three.

And they just...

they just do this thing where they're still mostly dead.

Between the lefty starter and Paul Skenes starting...

right now, I don't have much faith when Paul Skenes takes the ball.

Right.

It's tough.

You know what's a storyline to watch, though, this weekend?

Mike Trout.

Mike Trout-Dinardo.

The only Major League Baseball team Mike Trout has not homered against in his career are the Pittsburgh Pirates.

I didn't know that.

And the Angels.

He's never homered against his own team.

But the Pirates and the Angels.

That's it.

Mike Trout against the Pirates, Dinardo, for his career, is batting 114 with an OPS of 437.

How did this happen?

Oh, second question.

Where's Christopher Lloyd?

Does Mike Trout-Homer this weekend?

Does Mike Trout-Homer this weekend?

Does he complete the circle?

Does he get every team?

Pirates are only left.

Let's just say no.

I'm going to say Trout-Homer's this weekend.

Boom.

He's due.

He's due for it, right?

Yeah.

Another thing, too.

Pirates signed Kyler Fedco today.

Oh, yeah.

It's a minor league deal.

Yeah.

So, for all you Fedco Zone watchers out there, Kyler Fedco is the son of John Fedco.

He's been in the Twins organization.

He tore his ACL, so he's out for the year.

But the Twins took him off the 40-man.

Pirates signed him to do a minor league deal.

So, yeah.

Kyler Fedco officially in the organization.

They're like two.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really cool.

It's an announcement.

I don't even tell you about this, but I'm just going to make the announcement.

Stay tuned, because we're about to do a big fundraiser next week.

So, next week, next weekend, we're about to do a big fundraiser for the Clemente Museum.

So, just stay tuned for more info on that.

We'll be putting out some stuff on social media, and we'll be talking about it throughout the week.

But, yeah.

Just stay tuned for that.

Were you talking to me or the people?

I'm talking to the people.

Oh, okay.

I'm like, Jim, we've gone over this.

We haven't talked about it, but we haven't told the people about it.