Konnor Griffin Is Coming Back. What Can the Pirates Learn in September?

Yo, welcome to North Shore Nine podcast presented by FanDuel.

This is Bucco Brew, power a bite of hair, coffee, and tea.

I'm your host, Anthony DiNardo.

With me, we got Jim Rosati.

And Jim, happy Monday.

Happy Monday.

Happy Monday.

I don't know what it is with this episode.

Every time I try to do it, my headphones mess up, but we're good.

Could you even hear me?

Did you just know what I said?

I could hear you, but you were being all mumbled, so.

Oh, okay.

We're going to go no hood headphones this morning.

That's what we're going to do.

All right.

Hey.

Audible.

I guess it is football season, huh?

There you go.

Speaking of football season, how about that story?

All the fake football players coming out of the woodworks now, especially what was it, DeJuan Love or something?

Something like that?

Well, I've heard of two, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's an interesting concept.

It's almost like wedding crashers, but you're just pretending that you're a football player.

Right?

But the commitment to it all?

Yeah.

Just hit it.

$1.3 million.

You swindled a lot of people about pretending you're a NFL football player.

I already told the team, I'm in Ryan's league for how long?

I already told them that's my first round pick this year.

Well, that reminds me of, like, there was a time to show how, like, the whole recruiting rankings thing was just like a sham back in the day where you'd have, like,

these people who would just randomly, they didn't even play football.

They were just, but they would, like, they would put on social media, like, hey, I got, I just got offered by Georgia and Alabama.

And all of a sudden, they would get rated as, like, a four-star recruit.

And it's like, they're not even a real person.

Yeah.

So about that.

No.

Yeah, that was wild.

But happy Monday.

We're back.

August.

This is the last day of August.

Like, another thing here.

This is the last day of August.

September is upon us.

And I can't process that mentally.

I just simply cannot.

I don't understand how this year has gone by so fast that September is here.

I don't care about the baseball scene in this aspect.

I'm talking about just life general.

It's going to be 2027 in, like, a week.

I'm going to hear that stupid joke from you.

Yeah.

Yeah, you will.

We're, yeah, we're coming up on it.

Last week, last month of the season, too.

there's, like, not that many games left.

Either.

No.

What are we at now?

I don't even know.

We're at the end of the season.

So, the Pirates are 67 and 71 right now, which means one.

24.

This is really early for math.

Let's go ahead and call that 138 games, right?

Yeah.

So, 24 games left in the year.

That's wild.

How did we get it?

I want to go back.

Well, August, July and August weren't very friendly to us.

So, maybe we've just blocked those out of our minds, and we still think it's June, apparently.

Yeah, ever since we stepped foot in Cleveland.

Shocking.

Well, Jim, there's still 24 games left, as we've concluded here.

The season's all but over, but it doesn't mean, like, September doesn't mean anything, right?

There's still some meaningful baseball to be played.

Certainly should be.

And that's what we're talking about today.

The Pirates are 67 and 71.

But, we have news also that Konnor Griffin is on his way back.

He started rehab games yesterday in Altoona.

Went one for three with a single, two strikeouts.

September 4th, he's eligible to come off the IL.

So, there's that to look forward to.

Ross's will expand.

So, there's that to maybe look forward to, right?

Like, what do we want to see, maybe?

Who do you want to see come up here with those expansions?

And, of course, like, what do we want to see from players in September?

So, I'll let you kick things off here.

You saw more baseball this weekend than I did.

I was in New Orleans.

New Orleans.

No, it's weird.

I don't like the new September rules all that much.

Because, growing up, September was always, like, one of my favorite parts of the season.

Because, as a Pirates fan, your team was always terrible, right?

So, it's like, there was always, the season was already over.

But, it was, like, your chance to see some prospects get called up.

And, just have a chance to at least dream and hope a little bit for the next season.

With the new roster rules, like, you can only call up two guys.

One position player, one pitcher is typically how that works out.

Pitcher rosters get expanded by one spot.

So, it is less exciting.

Because, you look at, you look at, what this team looks like.

And, who you're going to call up.

Konnor Griffin, basically, is your September call up.

Right.

Which, is exciting.

Like, I don't want to say it's not exciting.

But, you, it's like the days of having, like, a 35-man roster.

Where you just call up all your, like, everybody on the 40-man, you know.

Those are, those are over.

But, yeah, Konnor Griffin's essentially going to act as the Pirates' September call up.

They do have to call somebody up tomorrow to at least play this series against San Francisco.

So, I would expect that to be, like, Tyler Callihan or Ronny Simon.

One of those two guys.

And then, Friday, Konnor Griffin takes a spot when he's eligible to come off the IL.

So, that is exciting.

It's exciting to see Konnor Griffin back, regardless of whether or not there's nothing to play for.

Like, you want Konnor Griffin out on the field getting major league reps.

Like, I think we still have to remember that he's 20 years old.

He doesn't have a whole lot of major league playing time.

Every major league at bat is important for him to get under his belt.

So that, when we do ultimately play baseball again, whenever that may be, he's got another month of experience under his belt.

So, yeah, I want to see Konnor Griffin.

The shortstop position hasn't been great since he's been out.

just looking here since, let's see, you can't really, let's see, can you do, try and do some positional splits here.

just looking at like Jacob Gonzalez's defense, Jared Triolo, like, I want to see Konnor Griffin back there at shortstop, pretty much every day.

Pitching wise is a little more interesting, I think, because you've got some names there between Khristian Curtis and Antwone Kelly.

one of them will hopefully be the guy that you call up.

And, we've seen them use this Carmen Mlodzinski spot through the rotation as just a bullpen game.

Maginski's not even really acting as a, as a long man anymore.

Like, he's not going five, six innings after an opener.

He's not going five or six innings as a starter.

He's really just going like three innings every outing.

So, which is annoying, but maybe you use somebody as a traditional starter.

Maybe you just mix in, Curtis or Kelly to get more innings in there.

I do want to see more of those two guys specifically.

So hopefully it's one of those two that comes up, but.

And let me ask you, because you mentioned Kelly too.

We've seen Kelly, we've seen him in the bullpen role, essentially.

Are you also assuming and saying like you want to see him in a more traditional starter role up here or just as is?

Yeah, I think Kelly is best utilized as like a single inning relief pitcher.

But is that like for today or in the future?

In the future, I wouldn't like, you might as well give him a shot to start.

He started all throughout the minors.

I think ultimately that's where he lands up, but I don't even know if they're going to use any of these guys though, as a traditional starter.

I don't think we're going to be five traditional starters on this team for a while.

Yeah.

I just don't think.

I just, I just curious about that.

Yeah.

Because again, like even like the Dotel, the Kellys, we see them in the reliever type of role, which is what they were needed for this year.

that's why you had that depth.

They needed relievers.

Try them out for one inning, maybe two, work them up.

I will say this, just real quick on Kelly, like he's had four games so far and, he was used as a little bit more of a bulk guy in his first three, two and a third innings, two innings, three innings, nine batters faced, 11 batters faced, 12 batters faced.

His last outing was that single inning role, right?

And you saw the stuff just take a big step forward, just from a stuff plus model, his fastball in particular, his first three outings, it was 93, 99, 95 last outing 110.

So like the fastball just played a whole lot better with the one inning.

His slider was just the model love, loves that pitch.

So like he, the, from a stuff standpoint, like everything about Antwone Kelly is looking good.

So yeah, wouldn't mind seeing more of him.

And like I said, with Khristian Curtis, he gives you a little more length because I think he is, he is someone where if you call up Curtis, you're hopefully seeing him more in, multi innings, maybe more of a traditional starter role.

But he's been, he's even been limited in innings in his outings lately.

Well, Kelly hit 102 his last time out, didn't he?

102.5.

102.

So like, and again, that was, that was wild.

What was it?

Two years ago when the fastball just gained all that velocity.

Yeah.

So it turned them into like, oh, we should watch this prospect.

And so, yeah, like you mentioned, like obviously in the believer role that played up in that situation.

But, he was always interesting as a starter as well.

he wasn't in that upper echelon of pitchers, this, in this prospect pool here, but isn't like that middle tier with like your Curtis's, so endo tells.

I don't know.

I still have some interest.

Now, again, I'm not here pining that I need to see him as a starter right now.

There's plenty of options.

I am interested in Khristian Curtis, the other guy that you mentioned.

I think that's certainly one that makes a whole lot of sense as well, especially in this like fifth day bullpen rotation they have going on.

I think that's where it's going to be.

Curtis could be used as a long man.

You have, Kelly in there and stuff.

I do want to see more of Khristian Curtis, though.

And I know it's been a very limited was eight innings so far in the major leagues with him.

Obviously, we saw him make his debut in Cleveland, which was a fantastic start for him.

Those five innings.

He came back up, made a spot start.

So nice to maybe give him a little reward, give him a little more run, see a little more from him as well, because I think that is a person that you might be looking for in the future as, a starter.

It's not going to be like your top of the rotation type.

And there's plenty of the pirates to have.

So that's good.

They need some depth.

So to see more from Khristian Curtis and maybe to get him more experience, going back to the shortstop position with our boy.

Like, yeah, I know there's been a lot of talk about, oh, just shut him down.

What's the point of playing him?

Why rush an injury?

Again, if you're playing, if your injuries, if you're past the injury, play ball.

Play ball.

There shouldn't be any reason to shut down someone, because like you mentioned, like this is part of the development.

Do you have a whole month of baseball left against professional pitchers?

I want to see these guys play.

Right.

Like you said, every pitch matters.

Every at bat matters.

That's part of the development.

So at any rate, yeah, the expansions, like I think, like you mentioned, like it's, what you're getting on the offense side.

Yeah.

But on the pitching side, like I think, yeah, Khristian Curtis makes a whole lot of sense at this point in time to just have him right up.

Or, I think Khristian Curtis makes sense, but you'll probably see, you'll probably see a combination of guys moving up and down as the Pirates do.

But you'll probably see more of Khristian Curtis, I feel.

Well, and also Doe Tell's down there.

Doe Tell's down there, too.

So, like, between those three guys, maybe they even do something where, like, each of them gets a week and a half or something, right, to give all of them a little bit of an opportunity.

Because, like, between Doe Tell, Kelly, and Curtis, they all probably deserve to at least be up here for a little bit.

And, yeah, none of them are really going to be used in the starters role.

I was even just looking.

Khristian Curtis hasn't pitched five innings since June 18th.

So, like, they've been pretty limited on his stuff, too.

So, whoever they call up, it's going to be a multi-inning reliever type of deal.

And it's going to be somebody that we've already seen.

So, yeah, that's what we're looking at.

But, no, to go back to your point about Konnor Griffin, why would you shut him down?

Like, if he's healthy, that doesn't make any sense.

So, like, I could understand, like, if it's, hey, you know what?

This injury is lingering.

It's an issue.

If he plays, it could get worse.

Let's do something so that he's prepared for the offseason.

But that's not what we're in.

Like, it's healed.

He's playing baseball now.

He's fine.

There's shutting him down.

I don't even know where that idea would cross into somebody's mind.

Like, if it's a 20-year-old kid, he's healthy.

He's one of your better players.

You need him to play baseball.

He's playing.

Like, if he's healthy, he's playing.

Right.

No.

It's certainly been a comment that's made over and over again.

A lot of people talking about.

And I think that's something that needs to be stated.

Yes.

Like, there's no reason to even entertain that thought to shut him down.

it's like, oh, what's there to play for?

Shut him down.

Make sure he comes back healthy next year.

This is the second time he's injured.

Just make sure the guy who's signed the biggest contract, in the Pirates history and while there is here and ready for next year.

And no.

No.

Like, he's 20 years old.

He has very limited plate appearances against Major League pitching.

Like, there's a whole other month to develop, to keep developing, to continue to get better.

So, when you're coming in the next year, whenever they play baseball, you have the best version of a conagraphy you can have.

Health isn't going to be a problem as far as injury goes, the way it sounds.

Like you said, they're past injury.

So, him playing or not playing isn't going to really do much to what was injured.

So, yeah.

Absolutely play.

Yeah.

Just real quick.

Finally found it.

Since Griffin's been out, Pirates shortstops.

63 weighted runs created plus.

613 OPS.

They're hitting 226, 258 on base percentage.

So, yeah.

It should be a very welcome addition to this team getting him back.

And he's just such an exciting...

We've seen...

Like, the two most dynamic players on this team are Oneil Cruz and Konnor Griffin.

Right?

Like, they just...

They make stuff...

Callis 2.0.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They make stuff happen, right?

And so, having both of them back will be nice.

Ethan says that Kelly can't be called up until September 7th.

Curtis, 9-9.

Ethan, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the September roster rules, like, negate that?

you would know more than me.

I'm going to go with no.

You're going to...

You would know more than me, but I was pretty...

I keep seeing stuff about how that stipulation doesn't apply for September.

But Ethan would know.

Ethan would know.

So, I'll let him...

Oh, he says he was looking last night, but couldn't find it.

So...

Oh.

So, if that's the case, then it's Dotel.

TBD.

But, yeah.

And they're pushing that, what, the bullpen game of the Thursday?

Pushing Jones back to Friday now?

Yeah.

Bullpen game Thursday, giving Jones an extra day of rest.

Yeah.

I guess, technically, everybody's getting an extra day.

Ethan does say he could be wrong.

Hold on.

Can you put that up again?

I don't know about that.

Real quick.

No, so...

But if that is the case, right?

If they have to wait until those days for those two guys, then I would accept Dotel.

I'm going to go ahead and say it's Dotel and Ronny Simon, if that's the case.

With Ronny Simon being up a few days until Conor's back.

Probably, maybe, one of the matchups.

How many lefties have they got going on in San Fran?

No lefties.

They got Logan.

This week.

Maybe Callihan.

you're not going to play Callihan over anybody else.

You're not playing Simon really over anyone else.

Right.

It's just a guy.

Unless there's a lefty.

So, we'll see.

We'll see.

Well, having Griffin back is going to be exciting.

I said, having him even just play yesterday, getting some swings in an Altoona.

It was good to see.

Yeah.

Mama.

Mama is definitely happy.

I did see that yesterday.

Just like opening day.

And, again, we're talking this as a fan and it's a team standpoint.

For Konnor Griffin, it's good for him to get back.

he wants to come back and at least finish the season.

That would be sour and terrible in a sense.

as a player.

I couldn't finish the season.

I was injured.

I couldn't even come back and finish it.

at least him coming back and finishing the season is good for him as well as a player.

Mentally and, of course, physically.

As he's going to go out there and play another month worth of baseball against his now new peers.

Major League pitching.

So, absolutely.

Yeah.

Getting him back is important for this year.

And, again, it's also one thing, too.

It's like this club, regardless of what the numbers actually are and everything, like they should be fighting out there.

They should be playing hard every single day, which they are.

And to get Konnor Griffin back is nice.

And that's just also, however the season ends, you still want to see, just like I talked to you today, you still want to see a team finish strong.

You still want to see stuff out of players.

Like, Konnor Griffin coming back, helping this team get to a fuller strength again.

he mentioned, like, that position's probably hurt the worst of everyone, that was injured.

Because there was no real replacement that was able to be capable.

like you mentioned, Jared Cholo came in.

And I honestly thought, this past, obviously, what I say, like, I'm fine with Jared Cholo starting the first month as a shortstop.

if Konnor Griffin's going to come up a month later, there's no point of using resources as a backup shortstop.

I think I was wrong.

Like, Jared Cholo just can't simply be a mainstay at short for some extended period of time.

You don't talk about utility guy, like, fine.

But as your shortstop, he couldn't do that.

And they made the trade for Jacob Gonzalez.

And honestly, Gonzalez has probably been worse than Cholo production-wise at the shortstop position.

that's been awful.

And it's not like the glove has been great.

So, it's just been an empty hole there at shortstop.

Or at least the other positions, there's been capable players to come in and replace them.

So, getting Konnor Griffin back will be a nice boost for this team.

And just to see them still competing out there in September.

Yeah.

The issue is, you're looking now, Jared Cholo is probably going to end up with around 400 plate appearances this year.

And, I like Jared Cholo as a utility player.

You don't want to give him 400 plate appearances.

Yeah.

Although, he did launch a ball yesterday.

I was like, is that Mark McGuire?

Like, into the Big Mac land, second deck of Busch Stadium, just crushed it.

Hey, it's about to turn September, baby.

Pumpkin Spice Triolo.

Coming at you.

Yep.

And that's the other thing, too.

I was like, you know what?

It's just, that stuff's just too weird.

Like, that's, it's just a weird back, his career.

And it's like, no, it's just is what it is.

That's Jared Cholo.

I don't know.

I think there's more merit to it than anything.

we're not even, we're not dealing with that small of a sample size anymore, right?

if you look at Jared Cholo's second half numbers, he hits 269, 109 weighted runs created plus 750 OPS in the second half.

And then in the first half, he's like, the worst hitter you've ever seen in your life.

Right.

It's just, this is the fourth year, fourth year now.

That's the thing.

Like, after three, it's like, this is just, again, it's just weird.

It's, this isn't true.

But now it's the fourth time.

And it's like, all right, you know what?

Fool me three times.

Not going to fool me a fourth now.

You bring up a good point.

Yeah.

You bring up four about, and there's some comments here saying that, like, the season's not over yet.

And I don't know, guys, like the 20 and four, that's what you got to do, which I guess is technically possible.

I just, there's nothing that I've seen out of this team that makes me believe that they're even remotely capable of doing something like that.

So I'm counting them out, but what I do want them to see is there's also no, there's no reason to just like roll over and die.

Like the pirates aren't eligible for the draft lottery.

So it's not like losses do anything for us.

Right.

Like you don't, you don't get a better draft position because you lose these games.

So like go out there, play the best baseball you can put the best roster on the field that you can and try to win as many games as possible.

I'm not saying this team's, I think they're, I think this team's done, stick a fork in them.

They're done.

They're not making the post season.

Like we, I don't know if there's even any reason to talk about that at this point, but they can at least make things exciting a little bit, go five and one, this home stand, get back to 500.

We said they needed to be 500 by today.

They're not.

So be 500 by next week.

Right.

Like, let's just move the goalposts a little bit.

Be 500 by next week.

And then, just win as much as you can.

again, I don't, I don't think it, I don't think talking about the post season right now is prudent.

They're sitting at 1.7% playoff odds.

They're seven games out, something like that.

They got a six, I think, hop over a bunch of teams.

so yeah, like let's pump the brakes there.

but I want to see some guys do well and we'll talk about more about like what we want to see here this last month.

I need to see some guys end the season.

Well, because who knows when we're going to have baseball again, but there are still a lot of answers.

There's still a lot of questions on this team.

Right.

That need to be answered.

So yeah, let's try to find as many answers as we can this last month of the year.

Well, I don't want to say one more thing to that too.

this goes back to the early days of the Cherington era, with a tank.

And things that we said multiple times, tanking starts and ends the front office.

It's on the field.

people were like, there's doing that, the tank and the player, like the players don't tank.

Players are competitors.

They're out there to win.

Now they weren't good teams.

So that was the best they could do.

Right.

It's the same situation here in a sense of like, you still, these are still competitors.

You want them to go out there and compete.

You don't want them laid down.

Not as a player.

Again, we thought, we talked about that back in the tanking years.

If guys are laying down now, I don't want them on the team in the future because that's not the type of competitor.

Right.

That I want on this team.

I want someone who goes once or once someone that's going out there and wants to win.

And so it's the same situation here.

Right.

Regardless of what we think, you're right there.

They're out of it.

they're technically not.

And that's going to be the mindset of all of them because all of them should be competitors right now.

And they want the desire to win and to compete.

That's why Konnor Griffin should be up here.

September not being shut down.

All those reasons.

Right.

So absolutely.

So, yeah.

So let's go over and talk about, we want to see and expect from other players and such.

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Even if we went on a crazy run, Padres and D-backs already being at 72-73 wins makes the math very hard.

We have no tiebreaker.

Probably would need 87.

That's essentially what it has been.

I know the Diamondbacks are a little bit closer to catch up to, but, the Padres are up there.

Both of them you would have to overtake, which means both of them would have to start falling apart.

And then with the tiebreakers.

You've been off the grid this weekend.

The Diamondbacks passed the Padres over the weekend, DiNardo.

Did that happen?

Yeah.

The Padres, I don't think the Padres have...

The Pirates broke the Padres, actually.

The Pirates broke Mason Miller.

You're right.

It is the Diamondbacks now.

Yeah, the Padres are about to tank.

I did see about Mason Miller, actually.

Yes.

Oh, no.

Cruz has broken Mason Miller.

That 98-mile and I'll change up.

Okay, well, then reverse it.

So, the Diamondbacks are ahead of the Padres.

So, the Diamondbacks will be tougher to catch up to.

But regardless, both of them, you don't really have the tiebreaker for four because it goes down the division games.

And at this point in time, Pirates do have the winning, a winning record now.

Not tied because they had that win against the Cardinals.

So, I think they're 21-20 maybe-ish about that in division.

But the Diamondbacks and Padres are better.

Well, and then head-to-head, they're not there either.

No.

No.

So, they lose the first tiebreaker and the second tiebreaker.

Right.

Wait.

Well, they're even with the Padres.

No, they're even with both of them, aren't they?

Do they have the...

Diamondbacks own the...

they are even with the Padres.

Yeah, they're 3-3 against both.

But they're not going to have the tiebreaker with them.

Right.

So, that's the thing.

They all tied the first tiebreaker.

So, it goes to the second one.

And so, there's still games in September.

Arizona holds the tiebreaker over us.

The first one.

So, they're 4-2?

Gosh.

You're going to make me look this up.

I'm pretty sure we're 3-3 against both teams.

Didn't San Diego sweep us early in the year?

No.

No.

I don't believe so.

What's the easiest way to look this up?

Silas is saying they did sweep us.

Maybe they did?

I thought we were throwing 3.

The Padres did not lose.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, they didn't sweep us early on.

So, yeah.

It's tied.

It's tied 3-3 with the Padres.

Okay.

We took 1 of 3.

No, we took...

We took 1 of 3 this last time.

We took 1 of 3 and then 2 of 3 against the Padres.

So, that's tied.

But the second tiebreaker is going to go to them.

Against the Diamondbacks, we are tied as well.

And they are also on the second tiebreaker.

Okay.

I'm wrong.

And again, to be fair, they own it as of now.

They're still September.

But it's a tough climb for the Pirates to do that also.

Yep.

Okay.

And again, it's just not worth talking about right now.

Go ahead and go 6-0 this homestand.

And then we can maybe start talking about it.

Right.

All right.

So, what do we want to see in September from some of these guys?

I'm going to start off...

Yeah, I'm going to start off...

I'm going to say, what's the one thing?

There's one thing you want to see in September from somebody or anybody.

The one thing.

What's like the most important thing?

And you don't know Cruz to have over 21 and a half homers.

No.

I got to go back to Paul Skenes.

Like, that's...

He's had a rough season.

And it's still...

Like, you look at the numbers, and it's hard to just like...

3.79 ERA.

175.

Like, he's striking out a bunch of people.

But he just hasn't looked good at all.

His last start against San Diego.

He looked good.

Like, I need to see that the rest of the year.

Show me that you can still be a dominant starting pitcher.

Because as he went through that stretch where he just wasn't good.

there was a three-month stretch there.

His ERA was over five.

I need to see Paul Skenes finish this season off.

He's got five more starts.

Finish this season looking like Paul Skenes.

And when I say that, I don't mean the fastball needs to be 100.

But what is, like, you got to...

Like, go out there and dominate hitters.

Go out there and be this team's ace.

Like, Ashcraft has pretty much stolen that off of you by this point.

Just with the way he's pitching.

But yeah, go out there.

Go out there and win some games.

Like, go out there and just...

Be better than the guy you're facing.

Win some games.

Be an ace.

I need a month of ace Paul Skenes.

Because right now, like, going into this season, if Skenes just keeps doing what he had been doing in the middle of the year, all of a sudden, your rotation isn't...

You don't feel that great about it.

You've got Ashcraft, you've got Paul, and you've got Bubba, who's taking really nice strides.

But then it's like, Jones hasn't really been great.

he's flashed some really goodness, but he hasn't shown it over an extended period of time.

Keller's hurt.

And when we last saw him, he didn't look good.

So it's like, what's this rotation going to look like going forward?

You need Paul Skenes to be Paul Skenes.

So go out there and finish the season like it.

Yeah, that would be nice.

That would certainly be nice.

Again, we talk about strong finishes, like the carryover into next year.

To see Paul Skenes return to form would make you feel a lot better about next season.

Right?

A lot of that's question marks.

It's like, okay, we don't.

And also, like, for us, for the world, not to have an entire offseason that's going to be elongated because of a lockout talking about is Paul Skenes washed.

Yeah.

Right?

Like, I don't want to hear that.

I want to have this conversation and fight with people and have to talk next year.

Well, it's probably just a bad year and it's still Paul Skenes.

Like, I want to have a strong finish to say, you know what?

Yeah.

I don't know what was going on with Paul.

It wasn't good.

But you saw how he finished.

Paul's still Paul.

Feel better at Paul.

Next year will be fine.

That's going to be good for everyone.

That's going to be good for the soul.

Paul Skenes' strong finish like that.

Like you said, he doesn't have to hit 102 every time.

But the thing is, like, if this was by design, also showed us by design, like, you can be this pitcher.

we know he can.

Like, his stuff is still good enough that he could be getting away with 98-99.

It's just go out there and be able to hit 98-99, not 95.

So, at any rate, yes, that strong finish would be nice.

In, like, April, you look at, like, right?

Like, go out there and do another April for September.

Like, he was...

Well, that might have been the best month ever.

Well, yeah, Mets was March, technically.

Yeah, so go and do it.

Yeah, if you did that'd be fantastic, Paul.

Yeah.

Really appreciate that.

Yeah, that's what I'm asking.

Sub 2 ERA for September.

I know I'm the one that would jump the gun and phrase it, like, give us your one.

Paul would have been my one.

So, I'm going to go to the next one here and just say, well, there's a lot of things I want to see from different people.

Well, again, we're going to talk about more of them.

But I think one person I'm looking more honed into.

I'm going to the other side, then, instead of defense.

We just hear the news of Indy, which sucks.

It sucks.

Indy is having such a tough time staying on the field.

I don't know.

I don't know what his future is.

And I'm just talking about it in general.

What his future is going to be?

this is a guy who can't, like Alex said, well, 160 plate appearances is the most he ever put up.

Like, is he just going to be a part-time player?

Is he going to be a catcher still?

Is he going to, like, what is his future?

Don't know.

What can you count on?

Don't know.

The type of injury?

You know?

you're assuming the time frame.

We don't know what baseball is going to be with next year.

Like, you're also just assuming he comes back and is healthy.

yes, you want to make that assumption, but there's a lot of things that just uncertainty about Indy.

And with uncertainty about Indy, there's a lot of uncertainty with the catcher position now.

it's always been Indy and Henry to some level degree.

And I think we're finding out that Henry, like, the bat just isn't there.

I'm not going to totally write him off, but just like the playoffs, it's, you show me enough now that I don't think that's going to be in there.

It's somewhere in there.

It's somewhere in there, but I'm not counting on it to ever come out.

If it does, that's just a bonus.

So I really want to see Rafael Flores, and I think he's gonna get a lot of opportunity and he should, it's deserving.

He's been playing good offense and playing better behind the plate.

as I mentioned too, like with stallings there and Jordan Comedina, I think that'd be good for him and to see how it develops more behind the plate and such.

But it was funny because I put all the tweet yesterday.

when Henry Davis came up, Jim, if you recall, like this first 110 plate appearances, he balled the F out.

He had like a one 34 weight or unscredded plus, it was like a two 95, three 95, four something slugging.

He was striking out just 18% of the time.

Like he looked like the real deal.

And then it just fell apart.

I want to keep giving Rafael Flores some run here.

this is the first little stretch he's had.

Let's see how he keeps continuing to look at the plate.

It's been productive for sure.

The power's been there.

Let's give him some run to see what this kid has.

And, again, they're going to have to count on for next year, but it's like, is this something where you feel still comfortable with ND and I'm sorry, with Henry and Flores?

Are you looking for another catcher for next year?

Talk about answers.

let's get a little more run on Flores to see what caliber of a player this kid really can be.

Yeah.

he would have been my number two choice there behind skeins.

So he did a good job there.

Yeah.

Let's see as much Rafael Flores jr.

As we possibly can, because I'm with you on Henry Davis, right?

Like it's, I would love for him to turn it around.

But at this point, there's no reason to believe that it's happening.

So you need to find your starting catcher of the future.

And he's doesn't look like it's it just from history.

And so it's Flores' turn now to show if he can do it.

So it's been a good start this season for Flores.

Offensively, he's doing, he's just doing great.

the swing and miss is still a concern, but if he can hone that in a little bit and continue to put up the power numbers that he is, then, you can live with

the swing and miss stuff, especially at the catcher position.

Like he doesn't have to go out there and be a 30 homer guy.

Like he just needs to be competent.

and so far he's been doing that.

So yeah, defensively he's still not great back there, but getting better.

I agree with you.

like he's getting a few more caught stealings now too, every once in a while.

but yeah, overall 119 way to runs created plus so far the models and stuff like him too.

if you look at zips, for example, zips projects them at seven 20 OPS next year, seven 29 OPS in 20, 28, 17 homers, 18 homers.

So like, there are reasons to like really want to see more of Raphael for us.

and so, yes, absolutely.

Like play him.

He should be playing five games a week, like at a minimum, like he's, he should be playing first base against lefties and he should be catching pretty much, three out

of five times through the rotation.

That's where we should be seeing Flores at this point.

and yeah, I think you can, if he continues to do what he's doing at the plate, I think you can be at least comfortable going into whatever the next season is with,

what Flores is my starter.

Davis is my, as my backup.

And then you go out there and find, make sure you have some depth because obviously we've seen with catchers, you're going to need some depth.

but yeah, Flores and they invested a lot in this guy, right?

They traded David Bednar for him.

So you got to give them, you got to give them as much runtime as possible here.

Right.

Yeah.

I'm with you again.

Like the swing and miss is still a concern.

Like going back to the whole Esmerlyn Valdez situation here, like that's been his issue coming up, but it's progressively gotten better at each level in the minors, like part of his development.

That's what made Esmerlyn Valdez an actual true prospect.

And you saw when he came up, we all saw what happened.

We came up.

So, that happened and that happened with a low zone contact rate, with Flores, I feel like it's Esmerlyn Valdez light in that sense that it's still a worry, right?

we're seeing how Esmerlyn Valdez struggles and those struggles can probably certainly happen for Raphael too, but he is walking a really good rate this year.

Like that was the biggest turnaround.

I felt like for Rafael Flores this year, opposed to past was his walk rate in the minors, right?

He's walking a hell of a lot more in the minors.

That's carrying over to the major leagues right now.

He's still walking.

So like, he's still productive.

It's in his own contact rate is a little better than 77.6% in the minors at 78%.

Like that's still not great, but it's not terrible, right?

That's even better than what it was before, obviously.

So the contact issues have progressed.

So as you're mentioning, are they going to continue to progress now?

He's at the major league level, right?

To get a longer run.

How's that going to still work?

But again, he is walking more.

He's chasing not so much right now either.

So, right.

Absolutely.

Giving him more of a run.

So this kid has, and the same thing with everyone we're talking about, like you, that's good for his development.

You want to see him get more run major league pitching and honestly, again, because MD is out, we talk about the injuries and how they weren't as big of an issue as people, may think they were.

Like when MD came out, reflers came in, like he's probably playing better than what MD was giving you.

Right.

So he probably helped out the position of being up here.

And so what I'm getting lean to here is like, you talk about the four to five games a week.

Like he's earned the right to play over Henry Davis, the way MD was earning that right to play over Henry.

So he should be getting that run and that's going to be good for him and good for the, for everyone to see more of with him.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

Give him again, give him as much playing time as possible.

a couple other things to, and we won't go into his debt as in much detail, but, I need Valdez to bounce back.

he had a rough August, the Valdez can bounce back.

Cause he's another guy where, I want Valdez to be a future corner outfielder on this team.

And just, you can write his name in ink right there and right field.

So you don't have to worry about that.

Like, let's make sure that start to his career wasn't just like a complete fluke.

if he can put together a really good September, put together a really solid season, and then you feel a lot better about Valdez going forward.

If he does in September, what he did in August, then you have to start.

At least there's a little bit of doubt that's creeping into your mind.

And then he's just 22 years old.

Like he's obviously going to go through the ups and downs, but how confident are you in a guy to just put him in your corner outfield when, he ends the season like that.

Right.

like has an entire, catastrophic second half.

So like, you don't want that.

and it's not like his August was terrible.

Like it was way better than Horwitz and Reynolds and a lot of guys in 88 way to runs created plus in August.

Like if that's your bad month, you can live with that.

especially when you're putting up one 49 in July and two 65 in June.

Right.

so you can, you can live with that, but bounce back, like have a, have a good solid end to the season, like show that you adjusted and that you're looking good heading into the next season.

and then I also want to see, shoot.

What else was I going to say?

I had, I had another one in there.

It'll come back to me, but you go.

Let me throw in mine.

Yeah.

Camilo Doval.

Okay.

That's a good one.

That's someone I want to see more run of because since coming over, he's been effective, right?

The array has been good.

He's helped this team win more than not.

he has a pedigree behind him.

Like we know what he did with the giants.

When he went to the Yankees, it wasn't so pretty.

It's probably why he was given to, the pirates rather cheaply.

Now we understood that the home and away splits were vastly different.

And that's why there was a lot to maybe look forward to in that type of trade.

And also the fact that this bullpen was so bad that we've also mentioned that we can welcome probably anybody just to help stabilize us.

They don't have to be great.

They just need to be someone who's solid and he's been solid.

He has certainly helped this team as mentioned, but the walks are a little concerning.

He walks a lot and the price point next year are, I don't think he's going to cost like what David Benorba cost in arbitration.

I feel like it probably closer to like the seven, $8 million, but do you want to invest seven, $8 million in Camilo Doval?

We've seen a good run.

He's used this, the slider much more coming over to parts.

It seems like that's something they've done.

He was more like, two scene slider.

Now he's slider two scene.

Pitching is effective.

I want to see another month of Doval.

Is this a guy you want to bring back at that price point or what?

You know what?

Like right now, I think, I think I was talking with Tyler maybe, and just brought this up.

Like right now he's trending.

That's just this guy you want to bring back, but that's only been a few weeks when we talked about it.

Maybe three at that point in time.

So, giving him a whole other month, seeing what this guy is.

Maybe this is a person that they can reinvigorate, turn around his career back, again, finished out, as a pirate next year through arbitration or some, whether they're going to offer him or, come to agreement of some sort or another.

But, this is a guy that you do actually want to bring back for next year.

So, yeah, I want to see more of Doval.

Yeah, Doval is an interesting case because I like him as one of those like middle relief arms.

I don't know if I trust him as like your eighth or ninth inning guy consistently.

I know he held that role in San Francisco for a while and he was quite good at it.

for a couple of years, too.

But he isn't that same guy.

I agree with you.

Like, I want to see more of him.

I see Doval right now as someone that would be at least for a team like the Pirates and who knows what the economic landscape of baseball is even going to look like next year.

But if it's if we're operating under the impression, it's the same.

The Pirates spending seven to eight million dollars on Camilo Doval next year.

I don't know if that's.

Necessarily a good thing to do now, if he goes out here in September and he shows us he's the guy he was back in twenty twenty two, maybe it's a little bit different, but.

Yeah, he's an interesting candidate for sure, because like he's someone that as of right now, you're probably non tendering him because I don't know if you can give this guy seven or eight million dollars.

Right.

He's a he's someone I'd prefer to have in my bullpen.

But then you look at the price tag and you're like, I can I should be able to get somebody like that or less.

I think like this year going out and spending seven million on a Gregory Soto, you do that because you lost David Bednar.

The bullpen took a bit of a hit and there's Santana there doesn't have a whole lot of closing experience, though you're trusting him to go in that role.

But Soto hedges that Soto had a closer experience.

you don't really know for sure how many.

Late inning relievers you have, you're trusting in some guys, but no one really has that experience.

And I think next year is different in that sense that you do have Weaver.

You went out there and paid a good price to get Weaver.

You have him for another year and he's been very shut down.

But the emergence of money Montgomery.

Like, that's probably your ninth and eighth right there.

So if you feel good about Montgomery, which I think we're all leaning towards that way and he's proving himself and you already have Weaver there.

Are you investing like to your point here?

Are you investing the seven, eight million dollars into like a seventh inning guy?

When you might have some others, again, he's also a righty here, too.

So like that's why I do want to see more of him.

Is he a guy that can be because we all know if you shorten this game of this really strong bullpen, it can change some things.

So maybe he is that good and you're like, OK, we have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

And that's how we're going to win right now, too.

But I want to see it.

I want to see more from him.

I don't trust the ERA numbers with what he's doing out there, but the stuff is somewhat enticing and intriguing.

So I want to see a little more of a run for him slider.

Yeah, really good slider.

And so, like, hey, throw it more.

And that's what he's doing.

Just maybe throw a little more for strikes.

Swing, miss.

Get more for strikes on the two seamer there.

But you know what's interesting?

The Pirates bullpen, number one in baseball in pitching war since the trade deadline.

Number one.

Fourth in ERA.

Fourth in K rate.

2.87 ERA.

God, it would have been nice to have that bullpen all year.

Yeah.

Even yesterday, like yesterday's game.

I know we talked about it yesterday, but God, it was.

Like, you had a lead and they almost blew it, but they didn't.

They held on and they won the game.

You just didn't see that first half at all.

It was just they went.

How are they going to blow it this time?

And they've been they've been rock solid since that deadline.

And it's unfortunate that this team hasn't really given them a whole lot of leads.

To work with.

But for the most part, when they've been given the opportunity to shut things down, they've done it.

So, yeah.

But yeah, I just noticed that.

Number one bullpen in baseball by war since the trade deadline.

Yeah.

So.

With that said, do you want to invest that much money into the ball next year to be more of like a seventh inning middle reliever type pitcher when you have those two?

We'll find out.

So, again, that's a guy I do want to see more of.

Yeah.

My answer right now is no.

Like, I don't.

I want him.

I want him next year.

I think, like you said, the price point doesn't make a lot of sense.

And I don't know if the price point makes like maybe that's something that it's coming.

Like maybe they come to terms on like here's six million.

Maybe.

Well, I think in order to do that, you'd probably need the non tender and then resign to like a right deal.

Yeah.

Something like that.

Yeah.

So I would like him to be part of the team next year at this point.

So let's I want to see him how he finishes out to see how that goes if I still want to or not.

Yep.

No, that's a good.

Do you remember yours yet?

No, I thought I don't even know if I had another one, to be honest with you.

No, and like Bubba's done a really good job just getting better all season long.

So, seeing him finish the year strong would be nice.

His ERA is already, he's down to a four, two, six ERA.

He's got two, 2.0 war.

Like he's put together a read, like, it's not the, I know when, that the season started, it was like, there's rookie of the year talk here.

He hasn't had that type of year, but he's had a solid, he's had a really solid rookie season for a starting pitcher.

And it's impressive.

he's just 23 years old.

You've seen the stuff.

He's going to continue to get better because he's continued to get better every single year.

So yeah, I finished strong, stay healthy going to next year.

Oh, the other one too.

And CPL reminds me, he says, do we resign Brandon Lowe?

I don't think we do, but I want to see Brandon Lowe hit as many home runs as possible.

Like just keep hitting nukes, like finish.

I know 40 is probably out of reach at this point.

Like you'd have to have like an insane tear, like hit, go over 35 homers.

I'm good with it.

We haven't had a season like that in a while.

Jim's like, I want to make sure you are definitely out of the pirate's price point.

No, when was the last time a pirate hit?

guys, Josh Bell at 37.

That's the number.

Go out.

He's already, yeah.

Taking the second base single season record.

Like just keep piling on that too.

Yeah.

Get the 35, get the 35 homers.

But no, I don't think we're resigning Brandon.