Pirates Fall to Last Place: Is the Season Already Over?

Yo, welcome to the North Shore Nine podcast presented by FanDuel.

Well, this is NS9 Live.

I'm your host, Anthony DiNardo.

With me, we got Ty.

And guess what?

Guess what, Tyler?

Guess what?

Guess what?

Guess.

Guess what?

What's that?

No, Jim.

No, Jim.

It's just us two.

You know what?

But guess who's here?

Always.

This guy.

Overliable.

He's got two thumbs and too stupid to do something else.

I also have two thumbs.

How about that?

And here we are.

How are you doing tonight?

I want to know.

How are you?

How do I phrase this properly?

I'm completely tired of talking about this team because they have frustrated me so much over this last month or two.

And at the same time, I have so much I want to say about them.

Is there something going on with me?

you're ugly, but.

Other than that, is the stream fine?

That's a good question.

I don't know.

Because I guess I just got, I found an error, but I think that's actually just Jim's Twitter account that is on streaming.

Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing.

I just want to make sure.

Okay.

Okay.

I was getting very nervous here because I was seeing this error pop up.

I was like, oh boy, is this stream live?

Are we having any technical difficulties?

But I think we're good.

It's just on Jim's Twitter.

It's not.

So who cares?

Again, no Jim.

All around, no Jim.

It's a good night.

Anyways.

Yeah, I want to know how you're doing because it's not going too well in Pirates land right now.

the Pittsburgh Pirates are three games under, 500, five games out of the wild card, 12.6% playoff probability.

And a trade deadline just happened.

Like, we are fresh after that.

And as the title of the show, and you see on the overlay, Tyler, like, is this season already over?

Yes.

Yeah.

That's not what I want to hear.

Yeah, man.

Like, I feel like this is where the bottom falls out.

We talked a lot about how they wouldn't drop two games below 500, and they did a really good job of maintaining that line, which, I don't know if I want to call it a really good job.

But they did.

They didn't allow the bottom to fall out throughout the year.

I'll say they did a good job.

And, like, sure, we can criticize that it was a game under 500, and maybe it should have been 10 games under 500.

It should have been the bare minimum, but they did have a hard line there where, for some reason, as soon as they'd fall a game below 500, they wouldn't allow it to spiral.

Exactly.

Well, resilience was the key word.

It has spiraled.

And, look, man, the Brewers are almost 30 games over 500.

They beat the shit out of everybody.

Like, they are a really good baseball team.

What they are doing is unreal.

It's silly.

They're going to secure an over five.

They're going to secure a playoff spot in, like, the next two weeks.

if we're talking about playoff probabilities, they're at a 99.9% probability of making the playoffs.

Yeah, they could, by the end of August, they're going to be.

When the Dodgers are at 100.

They are playing superb baseball.

They're a really good team.

You got to beat those teams.

You knew the Brewers were going to be a good team coming in this year.

Well, they also have beaten that team.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they didn't do it.

They, coming out of the deadline, maybe I bought into the hopium a little bit too much.

I'll be honest, coming out of the deadline, I was a little bit fired up.

I was excited.

Because it felt like, again, probably a little bit of hopium, but it felt like they had fixed the major issue.

And obviously, there were still issues.

But they had fixed the one that had cost them so many games.

Agree.

Problem is, they didn't fix the other issues.

And those ones got exposed bigly.

Bigly.

if you really think about it, everything you said about the Brewers is, absolutely true.

Honestly, like, this team going one in three against the Brewers in Milwaukee, like, that shouldn't be the sign of the end of the world.

Like, that happens.

That happens.

We went one in three in the home park of the team that's 71 and 43 right now.

With a plus 130.

99.9% playoff probability.

72 and 43.

They're almost 30 games over 500.

it's funny.

I don't use my Chrome browser too much on the NS9 website.

So, when I do, sometimes it tends to be a day or two behind.

This is one of those moments.

So, yes.

72 and 43.

Regardless, what I'm alluding to is, them going one in three shouldn't be a testament, like, this is the end of the world.

This is a done team.

That's not so much the problem.

The problem is what led up to that series and the hole they dug themselves.

They had to do better than one in three.

Like, technically speaking, it's not the end of the world still.

we'll talk more about this.

But, this team really needed to go two and two.

And this is a team that has to start gaining ground.

they're at a point of the year now where you need to start making that push for the playoffs.

That's why you had that trade deadline.

This is your last resort, to shore up the team and make that push.

They did what they did.

To them, they might have assumed that was enough.

We'll find out.

But, like, they made the moves.

They need to start making ground.

And, instead, immediately they lost even more ground.

And, again, they weren't in a great place at the deadline to begin with.

They were in a fine place, but it wasn't a great place.

Yeah.

And losing to the brewers who are as good as they are.

It's a spin right now.

There we go.

Is something happening?

Yeah.

I don't know if we're having issues with the StreamYard or what's happening, but what I was saying there, I don't know if the Stream's losing us.

I don't think it's us individually.

I think StreamYard's having some problems here.

That's not cool.

Yeah.

We'll get to it.

Anyhow, what I was saying there was, you lose three out of four to the Brewers going into Milwaukee.

Again, really good baseball team.

You lose three out of four to them throughout a 162-game season.

That's going to happen.

Right.

The problem is that, yes, they added at the deadline and they added things that they needed.

And I think Ben Cherington does deserve credit for adding the pieces he added at the deadline.

At the same time, you have to criticize him for allowing it to get to August 3rd before he fixed the obvious issues that were there all season long.

The reason they are three games under .500 is not because they lost three out of four to the Brewers.

It's because he refused to fix the bullpen for three freaking months.

That is why they are under .500.

Because he absolutely failed for three months.

Completely failed.

He put them in this spot.

You get credit for fixing it slightly, but at the same time, it's on you.

You're the reason it was like this, because you did not address the issues.

The issues were glaring.

You didn't fix them, and you waited too long.

Yeah, and I don't want to completely absolve the players that aren't performing.

we're mainly talking about the bullpen.

Why is the bullpen so bad?

Because a lot of the players who came in this year and have been successful and were going to be mainstays and a big part of the success of this bullpen, they failed.

Dennis Santana failed.

To put it bluntly, he was a complete failure this year.

And now he's no longer here.

it cost him his job.

Right?

Like, that's not – that isn't Ben Cherington's fault.

Isaac Mattson coming in this year.

And, there's – we've all been perplexed of why is Mattson as good as he is, but he is as good as he is.

Or at least he was.

And he came in this year, and he wasn't.

And Justin Lawrence just wasn't.

so many guys failed.

There's a big portion on the players that were failing and don't have a job currently on the major league roster.

But, to your point, Tyler, it's not as if it crept up on Ben Cherington in the middle of June.

This is something that was happening from day one.

From day one.

So, to your point, it's not as if this just crept up on Ben Cherington and said, oh, man, now they're not good.

He's seen the guys failing.

He could have helped this bullpen out earlier.

Yes, I understand trades don't happen often.

But do you want in the playoffs or not?

Is it – is what is more valuable to you the cost of the trade being equal or to you getting into the playoffs?

And, right, to your point, there was really no urgency to make sure those four, deals towards, closer to the trade deadline happened anytime earlier.

They all came within a few days and then the day of and actually hours before the deadline.

And it was at that point that they were in the situation that they were in and having to face the – arguably the best team in baseball in their home turf.

Dennis Santana absolutely deserves blame.

Mm-hmm.

He was trash.

But he has been trashed since April.

Isaac Mattson, yes, we were perplexed by how he was doing it, but you didn't have to squint too hard to see him falling apart.

He had a fastball at 93 miles an hour.

You didn't have to squint too hard to see that going poorly.

You know what else you didn't have to do?

You didn't have to sign Gregory Soto and his 370 ERA to a $7.75 million deal.

You could have just kept your elite closer you had.

This goes back to last year.

I know.

Instead, you replace him with a slightly above-average lefty that can't really close out games and you don't know which version of him you're getting day-to-day.

Like, there are a lot of other issues.

Paul Skenes's an issue.

Mitch Keller, an issue.

Braxton Ashcraft falling apart at this part of the year.

That's an issue.

There are a lot of problems, for sure.

If you just would have had some halfway decent relievers, this team's still 8 to 10 games above 500.

If he would have just fixed that.

You can still be somewhat pessimistic.

they could be 3 games above 500.

Like, the thing is, they didn't have to be 10 games above 500 to be in this thing.

again, if they're sitting 3 games above 500 now, they're not looking terrible.

the Padres are 59 and 56.

They're 2 games back from the wild card.

They're the next team facing, the wild card.

They're the first team out of it.

Like, that's where they could be right now.

And again, like, that's...

I'm not here praising a team that's 2 games out of the wild card.

It's not like, hey, hooray, we're 2 games out of the wild card.

But what I'm saying is, you're absolutely in it.

You're absolutely in this race.

they're not in a bad spot if they're just 3 games above 500.

And that's what we're alluding to.

They're 3 games now.

That's a 6-game swing right there.

They easily...

Again, like, people, I think, could argue your point and say, there's no way, Tyler.

Fine.

I'll give that to you.

Even if it's a 6-game swing.

That's 3 games above 500.

You're sitting there with the Padres.

You're looking right in.

You can absolutely fight.

And again, like, this team, it's not that they can't fight right now.

But it's super difficult.

It is super difficult, the situation they put themselves in right now.

And again, you're talking now, if they're 3 games over with the Padres, right?

Well, now where they're at, there's 4 teams sitting above them currently right now.

And, Tyler, one of those teams is the Reds.

They're screwed.

I don't see a way out of this, man.

I don't.

Because all the issues that are there are still there.

All the issues that were there in May are still here.

June, still here.

July, still here.

Other than maybe the bullpen.

I don't know yet because they haven't had a lead to find out.

Right.

I think it's better.

I'm pretty sure it's better.

They still can't hit a left.

They did trade for Weaver, right?

Yeah, I don't know yet.

It doesn't seem to exist.

I don't know.

We're going to burn the geriatrics.

We got ourselves a $5 super.

Thanks, SilasTV966.

It says, five games back, five teams back.

Offense ice cold.

Skenes isn't Skenes.

There's not a lot of reasons to believe it.

Anything will get better.

Probably won't.

And you guys need to keep believing.

I don't know about that one anymore.

Yeah, I've stopped believing here.

I'm just disgusted.

Like, fireball.

Fire it all.

Just burn it down.

It really stinks that, like you said, they went through that tough stretch.

And we gave them the props.

Well-deserved props, I felt, too.

Again, they could have had this collapse at the end of May when all the injuries crept up.

And they didn't.

And as I talked about, they actually gained ground with the loss of Oneil Cruz, with the loss of Konnor Griffin.

And he's out for a bit of time.

Spencer's out for a bit of time.

Wilber Dotel goes down.

they endured all of those injuries.

They easily could have said, we ain't built for this.

And collapsed.

And I think a lot of people would have said, see, I told you so.

But again, they didn't.

They gained ground.

They actually played good baseball.

We talk about next man up mentality.

That's what they were doing.

Jake Maynard comes in.

He's performing excellent, in the role he's given.

guys were coming in and just producing up and down.

Ironically enough, in that time frame, it was like, Brandon Lowe is the worst hitter.

And it's not as he was terrible, like Marcell Ozuna type terrible, but like, he was like the worst hitter.

But that was fine.

Because everyone else was producing.

And now it just collapsed.

does this just feel like the Houston Astros series before the deadline a few years ago?

It was different.

Like, that's when the bullpen collapsed.

That's when you like, physically saw the collapse happen, like in the moment.

But like, this is this feeling like that.

Like, it was just slowly developing and it's just like, it's hitting you right now.

I had that thought today.

I'm like, this just feels like that Astros series all over again, where it just, everything went to shit.

And a lot there about Ben Cherington and how I think he failed.

I said a lot about that.

And I truly do believe that he, at the same time, he has been given zero margin for error here.

And that is a Bob Nutting problem.

I don't like to complain about Bob that often because he's not going to change.

It's just a waste of breath, but the moves that they made around and before the deadline scream, we are at our budget.

Do not spend more money.

You trade the 34th pick.

You trade that international bonus pool money.

Good job by Ben for getting the Luke Weaver deal down, but it's another thing in there.

They really didn't add a ton of salary here.

You traded Joey Bart early in the year.

There was a lot of things that happened throughout this first half of the season where it certainly seemed like Cherington was trying to clear up as many pennies as humanly possible to be able to do something.

Right.

So it, maybe I'm putting my tinfoil hat on here, DiNardo.

Maybe I am.

And I could be.

But did Ben not add to this team at all throughout the year or pick up those waiver wire guys or do what he normally would do where it's just like, we're churning through them all, trying to find someone to figure this out.

Like Tyler Beatty's of the world.

Did that not happen though?

Not to the level that he has before.

I don't know if he did it at all really.

What did he pick up?

now you're going to put him in the spot here.

he made the trade and got, I cert.

Sure.

They dumped draft.

Yeah.

that, but I'm saying like he did go out and get some guys.

It wasn't to the level that he's done before, but they weren't doing the waiver acquisitions.

No, because it was obvious that this bullpen was not working and they weren't throwing it at the wall and seeing what sticks.

And I have to wonder how much was that we really can't add meaningless payroll here.

Like we don't have the room to be able to just see if something works.

Bob, not going to wonder.

I got to wonder.

I think it's very valid.

Again, Bob, not go how the report.

And I jokingly said on the table setters podcast, when I was out there, I was like, well, do you really trust anything that Bob Nightingale says?

You got to take that out of the grain of salt.

But at the same time, it's not as the Pirates are very truthful in the things that they say.

Also, like when they say, no, that's not a thing.

We have plenty of resources to go out there and do whatever.

But as you mentioned, they made all those moves.

I want to add José Urquidy as well.

Think about all of those moves is all of those moves make sense.

None of them just screams.

Oh, they're trying to shed money.

You're trading that pick to gain something today to help you out because you're going for a playoffs.

Like, yeah, you can rationalize that.

You can rationalize trading José Urquidy.

you can rationalize all these moves, the international money to gain a reliever.

But that reliever also was here for four days.

I'm sorry, four appearances and DFA it again.

Like, the point being, though, as you're alluding to, is they did a lot of moves that shed money, maybe not direct payroll per se, some of it, but not direct payroll.

But when they made all the moves, the deadline, there wasn't much added.

There wasn't much added.

Not that they had to, but there wasn't much added.

So you're right.

Are they?

Were they?

At the very least, from the outside looking in, they appear to be a team that was up against the budget.

You want to put on your tinfoil hat?

I'll put them on right now, too.

Was it a situation where there's not a whole lot of confidence in Ben?

And because of where the team is sitting, Bob says, again, this is tinfoil.

This is nothing, like, it's not what I hear.

It's not what I'm trying to allude to, but it's a possibility.

Almost like the deadline a few years ago as well, right?

Like, the same situation.

Like, if you're going to add, you can't add money here.

Was it just like, hey, you're sitting here, you're going for the playoffs, but I'm not giving you any more resources as far as money goes because I don't really have faith in this team and believe and trust and to pump all that into it?

there was reports, too, that there was no budget at that deadline.

It showed.

There's something here.

And, like you said, like, you can make all of – you can look at these moves, and they can be rational moves.

moving that comp pick to get nicer.

I didn't like the trade at the time, still don't like that trade.

And getting Jacob Gonzalez, who I don't think is any good, but I can understand why they did it.

And getting me Boron, and then moving on from him very quickly.

Like, you can understand why they did a lot of what they did.

But when you start to combine all these things of, we're shedding money basically from outside the payroll, you look like a team that doesn't have much money to spend.

And we got to save where we can.

And maybe I am completely off base with that, but the Pirates do not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah.

Again, I don't know.

We probably will never truly know.

I'm not – I don't think any of us are trying to state a fact here, but that is what happened.

And stamp it.

Like, the Pirates had no money, and they're trying to save.

But it adds curiosity.

Bob Nightingale did say exactly this was the scenario that was going to take place.

They want to be aggressive.

They are going to add, but they're only going to add if it doesn't add payroll.

And essentially what they did this year is added without any payroll being added to it for the most part.

again, very minimal.

Dovall comes in.

Yankees add cash.

Weaver comes in.

Mets add cash.

those are probably your two bigger moves.

that's safe to say.

Whoever I question how good Dovall is, he's not long in the tooth like Kirby Yates and Bockers, like, up and down.

Like, Dovall has a track record.

He's also getting paid.

Those are your two bigger moves, I would say, for the trade deadline.

And both of them had to come with cash.

Again, great trades.

Like, I'm not taking it away.

I'm not slamming Ben.

I'm not slamming like that adds to how good the trade even was.

It's just the fact that it seems as if it had to be done.

And like the IKF thing was like all he had the minimal salary this year as far as Weaver.

what's that tell you?

What's that tell you?

You didn't do anything until the basically the final day.

And like Cody here in the chat mentions, it's good business by Ben.

Completely agree with him.

We both do.

But.

But did he have to do that good business?

Right.

That's the point I want to Bob thing.

Did he have to do it that way?

Is that the only way he was able to make these deals?

I think it's a fair question.

And if that is the case, Bob Nutting should not be allowed to own this team any longer.

Don't know.

Don't know either.

We're never going to know probably, but that was my.

As it stands, that is what happened.

And this is the team they have for the rest of the year.

And I think the biggest thing like you mentioned, like the bullpen does look better.

I'll say this, you and I actually text this the other day.

I fear.

And trust me, I use that word fear strongly here in dual meanings.

I fear this bullpen actually might be really good.

And part of that is, obviously Weaver, but part of it is also because.

Mason Montgomery is starting to look filthy.

We all knew what he possessed.

We all knew the talent that he has, the talent, the talent.

Now it's looking like a skill and results and he looks confident.

He looks like he's in the zone.

And I want to, I want to, we weren't planning on talking about this, but you know what?

I want to talk to you about it right now.

Let's take three minutes.

I'm glad.

How do you, how do you envision this bullpen?

Shaping up as far as roles, what do you think will happen?

And maybe what do you, what would you do if you were Don Kelly?

If I am Don Kelly, Mason Montgomery is my ninth inning guy.

He is my closer.

That's it.

I want to know why.

He is filthy for one.

I think he has the demeanor to be able to do it.

And the other thing of it, I'm, I've been one of those people who wants the pot, who would have wanted the pirates to, mix and match depending on matchups, things like that.

Over these last like year, this last year or two, I think I've moved on from that.

And the reason I do that is because I think there is a significant human side to this that just isn't discussed by people like us.

Like knowing what your role is pretty important.

Knowing that we have a lead.

I'm coming into the ninth and I already have that planned out.

Like it's the fifth inning.

We have a five, three lead.

I know we're, when we get to the ninth, that's mine.

Instead of sitting back there being like, well, routine.

When you know to start your, you know what?

Like your schedule or your routine.

Right.

Right.

And what I'm getting at there is that your peanut butter and jelly sandwich in the third inning.

Yes.

Whether it's.

I'm doing my bands in the seventh.

In the seventh.

Crushing a beer in the eighth.

Maybe.

Which, whatever you need.

Or what seems like Mason Montgomery's case is throughout the game, he's crushing Rebels.

But, yeah.

But, I do think that's something you need is you need that role.

Like, talk about it with the batting order as well.

Like, I think that's important is knowing when I show up to the ballpark, if I'm Brandon Lowe, I'm hitting second today.

I know that already.

They're not going to mess with me.

Bryan Reynolds, I'm hitting third today.

I know that.

I do think that's more important than maybe we think.

So, the point there being that, yes, Mason Montgomery is my ninth inning guy.

I'm going Weaver in the eighth.

Sixth, seventh, that's where I mix and match a little bit.

Okay.

That's what I'm doing.

So, I think we vary a little bit here.

But, I'm with you 100% on Mason Miller.

Mason Miller.

That would have been cool.

Mason Montgomery, a.k.a.

Mason Miller, heavy.

Mason Miller is Mason Montgomery, light.

Anyways, I digress here.

I'm sounding silly.

Yes, Mason Montgomery.

I'm going with the ninth because he's had and is seeing success, and I think he's building some confidence, and I'm with you.

He's the younger reliever.

He's the one maybe you want to get in routines.

Let's not so much put, like, the kid gloves on.

That's all I'm alluding to, but it's like, I want to make sure I'm not throwing you off.

The mental side's there.

I want to get the best version of Mason Montgomery as I can.

And it's not just because he's the inexperienced dude.

Like, again, the kid is filthy.

He belongs in the ninth inning, the way he's pitching.

And if he continues this way of pitching, right, he belongs there, whether he's a left hander or a right hander at this point of time.

The reason I like that is, like you mentioned, the routines, the biggest part.

But I'm also, I don't want Andrew, I don't want Weaver.

I jumped the gun here.

I don't want Weaver in the eighth inning, per se.

If the eighth inning presents itself, then it presents itself, and that's where I want him.

I want him in the Andrew Miller role.

Or also, if you think about this, not too long ago, like the Aroldis Chapman role.

Like, think of what it was Bednar and Chapman.

Like, that's not too long ago.

That's recent memory, and that's Pirates.

Chapman wasn't always the eighth inning guy.

If there was a big moment in the seventh, you saw Chapman there.

That's what I want Weaver being used as.

I want him to be the, you know what?

This is the moment.

We need a big out.

We're really three outs.

You know what?

Like, this is the lineup.

This is the part we want Weaver in.

Not Yates.

Not Bokker.

Not whoever, right?

I want Weaver here.

This is your moment.

You go in.

Could be the seventh.

Could be the eighth.

Could be the sixth.

I don't know.

Depending on the situation.

That's how I want him used.

And then the rest on matchups.

He's the vet.

I feel like he could do that.

Yeah.

maybe, but I like knowing my eighth and ninth inning are secure.

Like going back to this, like you go back to the shark tank, man.

Like Watson, Melanson, Grilly, done.

You get through six games over.

Have fun.

You're not touching us.

Can Weaver be a guy that you can use more in that role where you use them in bigger spots?

Maybe.

I think we've seen them try to use Gregory Soto in that role and he's absolutely failed at it.

It's not working for him.

Tried it today.

Didn't work.

But I don't know.

I just, I think we've gotten a little bit too far away from defined roles a little bit.

my job, I want to know what my role is here.

Well, this is, I want to, when I walk in the door, when I walk in the door, I want to know what I got today.

And maybe Weaver can do that, but I think it takes very special people to be able to do that.

So it does.

And I guess I'm forcing Weaver into that role of a special person because I want him to be.

Is that fair?

I would really love if he was a very special person, but also again, this is the guy who hasn't given up an earned run since April 30th.

he is lights out that could do wonders.

And I think that makes, that's what makes this bullpen even better if he can, because again, I know just saying that he's the eighth inning guy that rolls or whatever, but you know what?

Ty, it's the seventh inning South Stewart's up.

JJ Bleday's up.

Nathaniel Lowe's up.

Do I want him there or do I want him in the next inning when it's Noel V. Marte, Matt McClain and Ke'Bryan Hayes?

Like that's what I'm alluding to.

You know what?

This is the moment that I want Weaver in the game.

I want to try to get these outs because for those three, let it be Yates.

Yates is capable of making those three outs.

I need to get through this sixth or seventh inning, at this point in time with these guys to get there.

And then I got my guy Mason warming up, coming out the ninth, shut this thing down.

We won the game.

Bullpen did a fantastic job.

So I guess again, that's where we've gone way over three minutes.

On this, that's where I'm alluding to on this bullpen.

I think it has very much the capabilities of being actually very good now with these guys, especially you're talking, matchups.

And we didn't really speak about Doval here.

And again, like there's some talent for sure.

There is, but now they can't get a lead.

Right.

Cause they can't hit lefties and now they just plain and simple can't hit.

Or righties.

Yeah.

They just can't hit right now.

They're in, they are in a slumpy slump.

Yeah.

They need a day off big time and they're not getting one.

No.

So do we.

We're just getting more angry by the day.

All right.

Do we want to move on to the next topic?

Oh yeah, sure.

Since we just added bullpen in here for air quotes, three minutes.

Yeah.

Carmen.

Carmen.

God, I hate the fact that he gets what he wants.

I know you do.

I hate it.

I know you do.

I would give him an opener tomorrow just to piss him off.

Hey, this is a start.

500.

Screw it.

He started.

in all reality, they're a better team with him in the rotation over Mitch Keller.

They are.

I hate to say that because Mitch done so much good for this team and he's eaten innings even like throughout these years.

He's taken a load off of a lot of starting pitchers backs and it sucks.

It goes this way, but they are a better team if Carmen Mlodzinski is starting and that's really not saying much because Mitch has been so bad because if we're really going to rewind here, Carmen wasn't a very good starter, he was fine.

Result wise, ERA wise, he had like 376 ERA as a starter.

His FIP was up there.

His success definitely came when he had an opener or they kept him limited, which unfortunately is not what this team needs right now because they need innings.

Yeah.

Big time.

If you're going for wins, Carmen Mlodzinski is a better option than Mitch Keller.

If you're trying to survive the year, you need a Mitch Keller.

And to go back to the original point here, De Nardo, another thing Ben Cherington didn't address.

He was well aware that you have a bunch of arms in this rotation that.

Plain and simple or not.

Developed enough to get through a full season or just haven't done it yet.

And he just didn't add to it, just didn't even seem like he was interested in adding to it.

Yeah.

It's tough.

It's tough.

The reason, and it's, you guys know how strong it was on this point.

You guys know how, if you've listened to our NS9 lives, you knew exactly how strong it was on this.

Do not trade Carmen.

Trading Carmen to add Weaver is almost a net zero.

Like you don't, you don't trade him to add him to basically be, again, like Weaver is better.

Yes.

But marginally to some level, in that reliever role, especially throughout like their careers.

So you don't do it.

The reason you add Weaver so you can have them both.

You have some real legit bullpen arms.

And now you lose Carmen as that bullpen.

Like again, if Carmen was also in the bullpen we're talking about right now, you know what?

Fine.

Weaver be the eighth.

Carmen be that person or the model.

Like this bullpen is can be outstanding.

But now you lose Carmen the bullpen and that sucks.

That sucks because he would have made this bullpen of absolute strength, but he does make the rotation better.

I think it just, it is what it is.

You can't deny Mitch Keller has been awful.

It's been awful.

And now he's out the air for the injury.

Whether you want to argue and debate all day long, if Carmen Mijinsky is a starter or not, him in this rotation right now makes this rotation better than what it was a week ago.

Unfortunately, you don't get the strengths in the, in the bullpen that you could have had, but he does make this rotation better.

But damn it.

Why did they add an arm?

Like you could have just solved this by adding a competent starting pitcher and also made the rotation better.

Had Carmen in the bullpen.

And you know what?

If you're worried about innings, Carmen in the bullpen, Walker in the bullpen, maybe don't tell us some point you have bullpen arms that can shorten the game.

If Ashcraft has to be limited five innings, Bubba five, you can do it because of this bullpen.

This bullpen can now shorten games and you've lost that.

I don't understand why, especially because they knew about Mitch Keller and he came out and admitted not that he should have hit it or whatever.

I'm not, I'm not correcting him or, angry that he self-admitted this, like, but he admitted they knew.

Why did you, why did you fail to get an arm and a left-handed bat?

I don't understand why you didn't add those two things to this deadline.

And if this team misses the playoffs, that could be a reason.

For sure.

This whole Carmen thing just makes me feel like I have a Brown, a Browns player on my fantasy team and I have to root for them.

That's what I feel like right now.

Like, I don't want to root for you, but I need you to do well, buddy.

You've been rooting for the Cleveland Browns for close to two decades.

Yeah.

same version, different sport.

This is the Cleveland Browns.

The difference is they're not in that shithole of a city, Cleveland, which, you know what?

I've given so much props to all this time and said, Cleveland is not that bad of a city, guys.

Cleveland is not that bad of a city.

And I despise Cleveland now.

So I will never give that city anywhere props.

That is the worst place in the entire world.

It's a fifth world country.

It does suck, doesn't it?

It's the worst.

It really is.

All my experiences were horrible.

Your trip was terrible.

I couldn't even leave my hometown.

I couldn't leave.

I couldn't leave home without hating it.

I was even there yet.

Yeah.

That place just sucks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, that's how I feel right now is that I got to root for a Browns player to carry me.

And that's what it is with Carmen Mijenski.

He is a Browns player to me.

I don't like him, but he's on my team.

So I got to root for him.

And maybe they can get something out of this.

Problem is that, like, I just...

DiNardo, I don't know if it's going to work with him as a starter either.

Like, there was a reason we didn't want him to be a starter.

Because he's not a very good starter.

They have no other options.

There's nothing.

If somebody else goes down here, they are...

F'd.

Straight up F'd.

Also, the point of why didn't you...

Like, Carmen...

Carmen could be the emergency break last starter if you added a starter and then someone else went down.

But you're right.

Like, now if someone else goes down, who...

Who is the fifth starter?

Is it Dotel?

Is it Kelly?

Is it Khristian Curtis?

If and when he gets healthy, which probably soon, but still, is it?

Is it...

Connor Wietgrefe?

he's actually been pitching his ass off in AAA.

Not on the 40, man.

But the thing is, like, you're just going down option after option after option.

And the thing is, those other options you had outside of Curtis' one five-inning start haven't really shown that they've been good.

like, Dotel has been fine as a bullpen reliever, but he hasn't done well as a starter in AAA.

So, to put him in the starting role as a rotation piece, because you have to now oppose to the bullpen, is that the Dotel you want to see this year?

I don't know.

With Antwone Kelly, is that who you want to see this year as a starter?

I don't know.

So, they're already having these struggles.

If a pitcher does go down, you're right, man.

It's looking really thin.

Well, it's not looking.

It is.

No, it's thin.

It's paper thin.

There's nothing.

It's...

Get well soon, Khristian Curtis.

Is he healthy yet?

No, he's still in the aisle.

Yeah, I thought so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There is not much help on the way here.

You are at your ceiling with a lot of guys.

And it seems like it's just throw the blindfolds on and...

All right, guys.

Two more months.

Just...

You'll be fine.

Mm-hmm.

Just real quick question by Yellowbeard.

He does ask, anyone have any injury update on Seth?

Not really an update since, but he's done for the year, basically.

Yeah.

That injury's a two-month thing.

Their season's even shorter than will be.

Like, he's done.

Also, real quick, I think we might have missed a super chat here for Talking Pirates, who mentioned that the Brewers spend $150 million or so.

The Pirates should be able to do that or could do that.

Yeah.

Preaching to the choir.

Yeah.

And I do think that's right, does.

And I'm sorry, guys.

I'm going to bring up what I've brought up before, but that's right.

4194 mentions that Bailey Falter just got released.

They could try him again.

In all reality, that's where they're at, though.

If something else happens, they're going to have to pick up a waiver wire guy and try to survive with them.

Yeah.

They don't have shit.

They got nothing.

And again, like, what just stings so much?

You're talking about having to get a waiver guy.

Sure.

It doesn't cost much to get an actual starter.

You saw what they were going for.

Like, it wouldn't cost you much to insure yourself someone who is capable and maybe not just surviving the rest of the year, but helping you get wins the rest of the year.

And again, not that Carmen can't do that.

But if you added that person in Carmen in the bullpen, like, that's making sure you add wins.

You got to catch up.

You got to catch up where you were, not survive.

Anyways, I want to ask you one more thing from the next topic here, because you did bring it up also, Carmen being the starter, he is going to be the starter tomorrow.

They didn't say he's going to be the bulk guy.

He will start.

Is that the right move?

Like, also, we know Carmen's probably going to the rotation.

Would you have rather seen him, though, with an opener or just a traditional go-get your start?

I would have been fine.

I think, I actually think that they will end up using an opener for him.

Within the next three starts, I think they will have to.

They're going to use an opener.

And the other thing with the trade deadline and the pieces they added in the bullpen, it's a lot more doable now because they have some options.

Like, you don't have to use Mason Montgomery in that opener role.

You can, hell, maybe use Nevin Sisk or something like that.

Like, you have options you can go with for an opener.

I just want to add to your point here, too.

Like, you have three Lethees.

Like, that's also part of the nice thing about this bullpen.

Like, yeah, you have the three Lethees.

You have Soto, you have Montgomery, and you have Sisk.

Like, you could use one of those as an opener.

Shit, I might actually use Soto as my opener over Sisk.

Just get him out of the way.

I don't have to watch him.

You already know what you're up with.

I would get up against in the second inning.

I could just tune in late so I don't have to watch him pitch.

Let's get this over and done.

That guy reminds me of Bastardo so much, and I hated him.

Ooh.

I get the same vibes from Soto as I did with Bastardo.

Move forward.

Move forward.

Keep going.

Let's not go.

Keeping it moving.

Yeah, I would probably venture to guess that they're going to use the opener for him soon.

I would hope.

That is absolutely Carmen at his best, and again, that's why you can have the argument, is he a starter, but when Carmen pitches through the first time for the lineup and even the second time, like,

he's typically pretty lights out.

Especially the first time.

Second time, he does fairly well as well.

So, to give him that edge to make sure that he's, facing the first time, the first three batters at minimum for the second time when really it's like the third time in a lineup, that adds some length

to him.

That's why you add the opener.

You can actually get more innings.

If he's only going to give you four, maybe that gets him to five because he can face the first time to the lineup the second time as he's going the third time through the order, per se.

Like, that's the benefit of it.

I do think putting him in his best case situation in doing this is adding a starter.

I would like to see, I'm sorry, an opener.

I would like to see him with an opener more often almost every start.

I don't know if that's, I don't know the conversations around that, but I think that absolutely puts Carmen at his best and this team needs Carmen at his best.

That's just what it comes down to.

This team needs Carmen to go five strong innings.

That's how you can almost ensure it.

No, I think it depends what Carmen wants.

Stop it.

Well, we'll sit down with him after his start and we'll see what he wants to do.

Hey, he had some good words.

He had some good words that time he spoke out and it was back to backs.

It's been like two months and he finally said something right.

Good for him.

It's not about how long it gets to be right.

It's just about being right.

It's all right.

It's the Pittsburgh Pirates.

We do whatever we want or whatever the players want because we'll fire Oscar Marin, which end up.

I was okay with it, but that hasn't worked out because the players wanted it.

We'll let Carmen Mijinsky do what he wants because he wants to.

Welcome to Pittsburgh.

You can do whatever the hell you want.

Really well.

We just kindled back.

Welcome to hell for the other reason.

Yes.

Yes.

At least he gets it.

This is hell.

Yeah.

You better be making sure you feel like it's hell.

All these all these perks.

We don't get perks around here.

We don't get those.

All right, Ty.

So Carmen's going to start tomorrow.

That's what the rotation is going to be.

We see it.

Let's talk and wrap the show up about again, this team needs some left-handed hitters.

Right-handed hitters need to hit off of lefties.

They need some hitters.

They didn't get the trade deadline.

But since the trade deadline happened, you talk about the waiver claims as far as pitchers.

I don't know if that's a scenario and issue that's going to solve anything.

But maybe on the hitting side, are there some names maybe that pique your interest that are now available to some level?

No.

Okay.

Well, then let's end the show.

Great night, guys.

We'll see you guys later.

In all reality, there were some names that popped up that have been released here.

Like with the with Jose Ozuna being released, like he wasn't the first one being released.

A lot of teams Jose Ozuna.

God, another guy way back.

Yes.

Marcell Ozuna.

You know what?

I would much rather have Jose Ozuna.

I would do.

At least Jose threw like 88 on the mound.

That's true.

That's true.

He was a guy could have had a Callihan Ozuna bullpen.

Could have.

But yeah, with Marcell Ozuna being released, like there were some other guys that were released as well that have at least a track record of being successful major leaguers.

Ozuna was one Rob ref Snyder was one Mitch Garver another Jorge Soler Austin Hayes.

I think ref Snyder's interesting because at least there is the track record of him hitting lefties little long in the tooth for sure and

certainly some issues there.

Austin Hayes is the other one.

There's another name out there though.

my interest.

Yes.

There's another name out there though.

Let's just start with those two.

Let's just start with those two.

Okay.

Okay.

Fine.

Okay.

Let's just start there.

We don't need to rile the troops up yet.

Okay.

I'll shut up.

But those are the two because again what this team needs is a team or is a guy that can hit lefties and those two absolutely crushed them.

the absolute ref Snyder was a guy I think you were involved that too.

I think we all talked about him as a potential player to add because he honestly there's a lefty up there.

This guy's like an MVP candidate.

Like that's the type of hitter that he is.

He just absolutely mashes against lefties.

His career that he carved out was good for him.

You know he came with the Yankees and never really put it together and he carved out himself a pretty long career being the guy that he was and he was with the Red Sox for quite a bit of time and such and he was good.

He was absolutely good against lefties.

He was a person that I was interested in this year.

He has been horrible.

Horrible.

We're not talking.

we're talking.

we're talking to Ke'Bryan Hayes versus lefties.

Like at his best right versus lefties he's giving you like a Ke'Bryan Hayes type production.

With Austin Hayes it's the same thing.

He's been absolutely outstanding versus lefties.

And we're talking like 150 when he runs created plus and higher.

Like that level.

We're not talking about oh he's adequate.

He's a little bit above the average.

They are lefty killers.

And Austin Hayes it's like the same thing this year.

They are Ke'Bryan Hayes type level hitters when they're in their best moments.

So it might be the times past them.

But I don't know like is it worth a shot on some of these.

I think Austin Hayes might be worth it.

Okay.

Not ref Snyder though.

I think you can get there with him.

Like if I if I squint hard enough I could probably get there.

But at least in Hayes tend to squint pretty hard often.

I'll give you that.

I'm blind as shit.

What do you want from me?

But at least you know Hayes isn't as old.

31.

The strikeout rate didn't shoot through the roof against lefties.

Just you know it's not the largest sample sizes.

Well naturally.

Does he move the needle?

Not really.

But he can play the corners well enough.

Like ref Snyder's probably a DH at this point.

Yeah.

That's fair.

He's 35.

At least Hayes gives you production elsewhere.

Right.

Like you can sneak him out there.

Give Valdez a day off.

I think if you're really looking at it Hayes is the one that at least makes the most sense if you're going to continue to try to win baseball games.

If you're not just let password play every day and call it a day.

Who cares?

Yeah.

That's what's tough about this.

They're in such a hard spot that it's hard to be risky because you need sure things like this team needs to be good not maybe they could be good and

they missed the boat though.

That's the problem.

They missed the boat.

But those two guys do intrigue me.