The Rays are headed back to the World Series with a roster built largely through trades, and there’s a lesson in that for the Pirates.
On today’s OffBeat, Alex looks at Pittsburgh’s complicated history with Tampa, the lasting impact of the Chris Archer trade and why being afraid of another mistake could be just as damaging as the mistake itself.
Watch or listen to the full episode for Alex’s breakdown.
With Alex Stumpf.
Pirates decision-makers are still gun-shy because 'we don't want our Chris Archer trade,' and that is no way to run a franchise since every deal carries risk.
The Archer deal was a misguided swing: after trading Cole and McCutchen the Pirates should have rebuilt, but an 11-game win streak made them impatient.
Junior Caminero, acquired as a no-name in a minor trade, is the one active player with the ceiling to challenge Bonds as the greatest home run hitter ever.
The Rays turned a comp pick into Brian Baker and 41 saves, while the Pirates' Jacob Gonzalez and Brandon Eisert return for a similar pick was unimpressive for a trade meant to help in 2026.
Small-market teams can't always sign high-impact free agents, but they can always find a trade, which is how the Rays built a majority of their roster.
There was a time, a couple decades ago, that the Pirates and Rays were unofficial kindred spirits.
Just two small market, low payroll teams, without much direction, stacking up, losing seasons again and again and again.
Then in 2008, the Rays turned it around and they shocked the world and they won a pennant.
On Monday, they won another pennant, their third since 2008.
And the only teams in baseball that have won that many pennants since 2008 are the Dodgers, the Astros, and the Giants.
The Rays have yet to win their final game of the season, but they have been as competitive as anyone in baseball over the last two decades.
And they've done it, in large part, with the one way that any team, regardless of payroll, regardless of market size, can always acquire top talent.
They trade for it.
Good morning, and welcome to OffBeat, here on North Shore Nine, presented by FanDuel.
My name is Alex Stumpf, and this is a daily look at your Pittsburgh Pirates.
Whenever you talk trades, the Pirates, and the Rays, it's a pretty lopsided history.
Okay.
You could go old school and be like, oh, the Iwamura trade.
And how horribly that turned out for the Pirates.
You go to this last winner, and the three-team trade between the Pirates, Astros, and Rays.
The one that brought in Brandon Lowe, Mason Montgomery, Jake Mangum.
Really good trade for the Pirates.
Swinging it the Pirates' way.
But let's not kid ourselves.
The Chris Archer trade is the defining trade.
The defining transaction between these two franchises.
The Rays sold high on Chris Archer, and his FIP, and his controllable, cheap contract, and got a lot of untapped upside.
Tyler Glasnow, Austin Meadows, Shane Boz.
The thing is, none of those players are still with the Rays.
All three have been traded themselves.
Meadows went to the Tigers.
Glasnow to the Dodgers.
Boz to the Orioles.
Because that's what this Rays team does.
They're always wheeling and dealing.
And it could be a roster churn.
And yeah, I guess it could stink if you're a fan.
And you're just trying to buy a jersey for someone and be like, can I just hold on to one?
But, man, have they not been one of the more competitive teams in baseball over the last decade?
Over the last two decades?
That trade, I cannot tell you how many times in my time on the beat.
So we are talking the 2020s.
We are talking new regimes.
Have I heard about the Chris Archer trade from someone in the Pirates organization?
It was a bad trade.
It was a bad trade for a multitude of reasons.
Glasnow, Meadows.
Look, Glasnow was never going to reach his final form in Pittsburgh.
I get he was probably best suited as trade bait.
Meadows, maybe it was the same thing.
But like, Boz, it's like, man, that's a first-round pick.
That's a really good prospect.
You're giving up as the player to be named later.
That really sours it.
The timing of the trade stunk.
After losing seasons in 2016 and 2017, 20...
And you trade Gary Cole and you trade Andrew McCutchen.
That should have been a...
There aren't a lot of stakes left in the freezer type moment.
You've got to restock.
You've got to rebuild.
We'll make a run in a year or two.
But they got impatient.
That 11-game winning streak, they were above .500.
They saw a chance to get back to the postseason.
And they took a big, wild, misguided swing.
And hey, look.
The nicest thing I could say about the Chris Archer trade was...
It was driven from a place of them wanting to win.
And win immediately.
And I can't always fault any organization for wanting to win and win now.
But it was a really bad swing.
I cannot tell you how many times...
Like, multiple people, multiple times, I have heard about this trade years later.
In a lot of it, you could just be in passing, like, oh yeah, whatever.
But then, I've heard at different points of people in the organization being a little gun-shy to make a move.
Because it's like, we don't want our Chris Archer trade.
And that's not how you run stuff.
Any transaction you have is going to come with some level of inherent risk.
Every team is going to...
I don't know if trades always can go down as, like, a win or a loss.
But even the best will lose some trades.
They could have really good processing.
It could be things that are outside of their control.
But they still take swings.
That's how this Rays team was built.
Of the 26 players on their ALCS roster...
...16...
...were acquired via trade.
Junior Caminero is their best player.
He is a superstar in the making.
He is someone who...
Man, he is really young.
But if there is any player active in baseball right now...
...who I thought might have a chance to challenge Bonds...
...it would probably be him.
There's a long way to go before he's in that conversation.
But, like, he has that type of ceiling.
To be the greatest home run hitter maybe ever.
He was a no-name in a minor trade.
Acquired him that way.
Yandy Díaz.
He hit the clinching home run...
...in game six.
He was acquired whenever he was a young major leaguer...
...from Cleveland.
In a three-team trade...
...Rays took on...
...a young player...
...and said, we will continue to develop him.
Freddy Peralta.
Fastball Freddy.
The winning pitcher of game six...
...to send the Rays to the World Series.
Was a name.
He has a league-recognized nickname.
And he was acquired this trade deadline...
...as a rental...
...to bolster this team.
Trades can come in a lot of different fashions.
That's what this Rays team does, though.
They find different ways to acquire...
...talent.
Like the old school thought of like...
...oh, you have to draft and develop...
...or internationally sign guys.
Only four guys...
...were either drafted by this team...
...or signed as an international free agent.
It's Ian Seymour, Chandler Simpson, Taylor Walls...
...and then Jonathan Aranda...
...as the international signing.
Now, Walls, Simpson, Seymour...
...those are three good players.
I would say...
...Simpson and Walls...
...are in their top 10.
Well, top 10 players of this year.
I didn't check out the baseball reference...
...top 12 for them.
But I feel confident in saying...
...they would both be on that list.
Those are really good players.
But, like, the crux of this team...
...the highest end talent they have...
...was through trade.
And, yeah, they had to do some developing.
Yeah, they had to do some...
...ground work.
And they had to...
...help build these players to be greater.
But that's development.
That's coaching.
That's what you...
...every team needs to do.
There are always...
...always...
...great players available.
Even if the Rays are going to be...
...taking up a good chunk of them.
...by themselves, it looks like.
We've got more on this in a minute.
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There's a story that circulates...
...on, TikToks, YouTube, Shorts, Instagram...
...whatever your short form video choice is.
And it's the Jeff Besson...
...talking about how the Rays...
...almost traded for Ohtani in 23.
And they were going to give up Junior Caminero.
And justifiably, the takeaway is like...
...wow, would it be wild to see Ohtani in a Ray uniform?
Man, did the Rays dodge a bullet...
...because, the Rays thought...
...they were buying, two-way player Ohtani...
...and then he pretty much immediately...
...has his UCL blow up.
He needs Tommy John again.
It was a trade that had it gone through...
...would have been a disaster for the Rays.
If Camineroon was doing what he was doing now...
...in Anaheim.
For America's team.
But you know what?
Does anyone...
...I don't know if they much care.
I think just the tenacity...
...that the Rays are like, yeah...
...yeah, we could acquire Ohtani.
We could acquire the best player in baseball.
Let's go for it.
There's something to be said for that.
That this is a team...
...that knows...
...this is probably the best avenue...
...they're always going to have.
To acquire high-end talent.
It is going to be through trades.
It looked like...
...Freddie Peralta...
...had a really ugly...
...stint in New York.
And then they acquired him...
...from the Mets.
They probably got him at...
...more of a discount...
...than anyone expected...
...coming into the year.
And it didn't much matter.
The analytics team saw something.
Coaching was able to implement those ideas.
And then he reverted back to...
...Fastball Freddy.
The guy that we saw in Milwaukee...
...all those years.
The type of guy that you give the ball to...
...in game six...
...whenever you could go to the World Series.
It's not just always...
...trade finish products.
No, they don't do that.
But they take guys...
...who are young major leaguers...
...who are lower level prospects.
Lower level, maybe not even...
...seriously considered a prospect...
...like Caminero was at the time.
But you coach.
You develop.
You do...
...what the brewers do also.
You build a baseball culture.
You get buy-in.
Universally.
And they don't back away...
...from trades.
They aren't haunted by a trade...
...that a previous regime made...
...eight years prior.
I do think there are still...
...some small aftershocks...
...of that Chris Archer trade...
...that do linger...
...throughout just this front office...
...and Pirates organization in general.
It was a really bad trade.
It was paramount.
It was one of the big reasons...
...why...
...Yale Huntington was let go...
...after 2019.
Whenever the team crashes and burns...
...and hey...
...those were two of our top prospects...
...and they're leading the Rays...
...to the playoffs...
...what the hell.
It was probably time to make a change anyway.
But...
...I don't know.
I see what the Rays did with...
...you know...
...last year.
Whatever they were like...
...we're going to trade our...
...this supplementary first round pick...
...that we have.
And they get Brian Baker.
Someone who...
...yeah...
...needed coaching...
...needed further development...
...but...
...then went on to save...
...41 games this year for them.
And the Pirates...
...whenever they had...
...a similar draft pick to trade...
...they got Jacob Gonzalez...
...and Brandon Eisert.
It was...
...try to fix two holes...
...with one draft pick...
...serve two masters...
...and...
...look...
...there's a long way to go...
...with Jacob Gonzalez...
...and Brandon Eisert.
Maybe they could be...
...Major League contributors...
...maybe they could be good...
...Major League players...
...but I...
...wasn't that impressed...
...for a trade that...
...was supposed to be...
...helping them in 2026...
...and beyond.
It wasn't just a 2026 trade...
...but it was...
...partially that.
The Rays find ways...
...to make trades...
...in a variety of different ways...
...and they didn't blink...
...that they...
...lost...
...Brandon Lowe...
...and Montgomery...
...and Mangum this year.
No team this winter...
...made more trades...
...than the Rays.
This roster is built...
...majority...
...through trades...
...can't always sign...
...high-impact free agents...
...but you can always...
...always find a trade...
...somehow, someway.
Thank you so much for listening...
...to Offbeat...
...here on North Shore Nine...
...presented by FanDuel.
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Thank you so much for listening...
...we will talk again tomorrow.
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...of North Shore Nine.
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Comments· 0
Should the Pirates have taken a bigger swing with their comp pick than Jacob Gonzalez and Brandon Eisert?
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