4% Playoff Odds: The Pirates Have Reached the Breaking Point

Yo! Welcome to the Rush for Nine podcast presented by FanDuel. This is the NS9 live show. I'm your host, Anthony DiNardo. With me, we got Jim Rosati.

We got Tyler Sweeney. Fellas, what to do.

I'm glad Jim can make it tonight without being thrown out.

Yet.

Yeah, haven't been thrown out yet. Yeah. I've started the show. I don't know if I'll be able to finish it. I'll say this. My Wi-Fi is better tonight than it's been the past couple.

Yeah.

Very fair.

Why don't you tell us for those for can I can I start off the show with I'm just going to start off the show with this for those who are unaware.

Yesterday, I'm in I'm in Miami at the Marlins game Pirates Marlins.

And, I leave the press box in the top of the ninth to go get set up for the postgame show.

The previous night I had done the show from like the second level of the ballpark, like the club level where, just like the second deck there.

And like the entire time people were just like getting in my way. They were like cleaning stuff up around me. They were like, are you are you going to be done soon? Are you going to be done soon?

And so I'm like, yeah, I'm going to be done soon. Like, just let me finish this. And it's just like stadium workers. Right. And so I'm like, you know what, I'm not going to go to that same spot. I'm just going to make it easier on everybody.

I'm going to go up to the upper level where there's no fans. Like there was 400 people at the game. Right. I'm going to go up to the upper level where you're at. Yeah. I'm going to go up to the upper level there. I won't like I won't be bothering anybody. No one will be bothering me. It'll be easy. Right.

The way they have the ballpark set up there is like you've got it from the press box. You got to take the elevator everywhere you go. So you go up or down and the elevator like there's someone operating the elevator. There's a security guard operating the elevator.

And so I get on the elevator. It's top of the ninth inning. I leave a little early so I can get set up. And, security guard goes, where would you like to go? I was like, you know what? Let me go up to the Vista level. He's like, sounds good.

Like security guard escorted me in an elevator to the top floor. I get off and he's like, enjoy. I was like, sounds good. I will. Right. Get everything set up. It's going like I'm like, this is going to be perfect. Like no one's going to be here. No one's going to be bothering me.

And I'm thinking the Wi-Fi might not suck as bad either because I'm like directly above the press box.

Well, yeah, like a minute into the postgame show, someone comes up and is like, you're not allowed to be up here.

Like, I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I was like, I'd like flash my credential, which everywhere we've ever been, the credential gets you anywhere you want. Like you can, you can basically go anywhere you want.

It's the point of the credential.

I can go on the field. I can go in the clubhouse. I can do all this stuff. Right. And I'm like, I surely I can be standing in the stands. Like it never crossed my mind that this was a spot that I wasn't allowed to be. He goes, yeah. Yeah. you're gonna have to come with me. Like we got to leave.

I was like, okay, fine. So I'm like, let me just go. I'll just finish the show from the press level. I'll just find like a corner in a room somewhere.

He's like, no, well, first my boss wants to see you. So then we got to go. I'm like, fine, whatever. Let me talk to this guy. And he goes, so yeah, you're not allowed on the set up on the top floor.

I was like, I didn't, I didn't know. I was like, someone actually like escorted me to the floor. Like no, like I had no idea. This was a place I wasn't supposed to be. I was like, I apologize. My bad. I'll just, I'll go, I'll go back to the press level. He's like, no, you're going to have to leave right now.

I'm like, excuse me. I was like, I was like, what are you like? You're joking. Right. Like he's like, no, you're going to have to leave. He's like, you can come back tomorrow, but you're going to have to leave right now.

So I got kicked out of Lone Depot park for standing in the stands. You got, this is supposed to be a Mr. Beast video. How I got kicked out of Lone Depot park.

Like unbelievable. Unbelievable. I was just like, this is, this is absurd. The guy who originally got me super cool guy and like, but he was a nice guy. His boss though.

Screw that guy. Also never going back, never going back to that ballpark. That place sucked. Just a dump, like stand up for the national anthem. I'm like, where's the flagpole? Where are the flags? They don't have a flagpole there.

They just have like three by five flags, like tape to a wall in the outfield somewhere. It's a garbage ballpark. And I hope that team gets contracted within the next five years.

I hate it. They're never going back.

So I think I will give approval to transfer my hate of Cleveland because we were treated very well in Cleveland.

There were good people all around.

Cleveland was outstanding. Like every, like I said, everyone there at the ballpark for the most part was great.

Very hospitable, but yeah. Like, what are we talking about here? I was, I was literally in the stance.

Like we can transfer my Cleveland hate to Miami for a few weeks, but the Cleveland hate has to come back.

But for now I give approval to hate Miami.

Yeah. Screw Lone Depot park. Screw the Marlins.

I like, I hope the Marlins, I hope the Marlins go on some like run to like give the four or five fans that they have a, just a little bit of hope.

And then they end up getting eliminated in game one 62.

Steel city says even Zach Hample didn't get kicked out of that game, but Jim did.

It was most, it was the most insane experience of my life.

like I said, everybody was like nice about it, but it was like, he was just like, no, you're going to have to go now.

He's like, you can come back tomorrow, but you're going to come back.

I'm like, I was like, I'm not coming back tomorrow.

He's like, this isn't a permit. You're not banned.

You just can't come back tonight.

No, it was just like, you're going to have to leave now.

Yeah. You're almost over to cause that first game was rough too, as you mentioned, but I anticipated you coming back the second time when I saw you just vanish.

You were literally the meme, right?

You put the deuces up and you were just gone because your wifi was so bad.

You didn't even see yourself walk out.

You just disappeared in one frame.

You're there.

The next frame you were gone.

And so again, like I anticipated you coming back at some point and you just left Neil to dry.

Shame, Jim, shame.

Kudos to Neil last night, by the way.

Good job, buddy.

Shout out, Neil.

Yeah.

Carrying the load, as always.

Thanks to Jim.

Glad you can make it back for it.

It's not live for first time.

Shout out, Neil.

But yeah, there we go.

So I just needed to start the show with that.

I was already in a bad mood, too.

Like the pirates had just gotten their brains bashed in.

Like it was rough night, rough night.

It could have been the night before when you were, well, not complaining, but pointing out how few Marlins fans exist and how many show up to games.

They might have listened to the podcast and been like, that guy cannot be here again.

I don't know.

I don't know.

But yeah, I had to I had to get that off my chest there.

Never going back.

Seen this movie before.

Honestly, it was so much better without him last night.

I just figured let's carry on tradition.

No Jim tonight either.

Let's kick him out of here.

Jim, you can't come back till tomorrow.

Welcome back, buddy.

I wish I would like I would love to not have to do the show tonight, actually.

Well, yeah, I feel like some people would love for us not to do the show either.

But it must be done last week.

We question.

Is it over?

And of course, without Jim, Tyler and I by ourselves were on and we discussed it and we decided that it's not over, but it's trending that way.

And they need to certainly come back and start fighting off some teams, get some dubs here.

And they had the Mets and then the Marlins, two teams that you can find themselves, going four out of six.

And they did it.

They went two out of six.

This team is five and a half games out.

There's three teams.

They're better than in the entire National League.

Seven in the entire sport.

And here we stand with a four percent playoff chance.

Folks.

Is it over?

As I said last night before I disappeared into thin air.

Yeah, it's over like this team.

This team is cooked.

They have lost.

They have lost the privilege of anyone taking them seriously at this point.

It's up to them if they want to at least eke back into that conversation.

But as of right now, this team.

This team is not in the playoff hunt like if the National League, like if you were looking at a national broadcast and they're posting the NL wildcard standings, the pirates shouldn't even be on the graphic.

Yeah, this is plain and simple with bad team right now.

They're a bad baseball team.

At the best, they're mediocre right now.

And that's not a playoff team.

It's over like this season's done.

It sucks, but.

I don't know.

You can't even vote on this because it's ended so poorly so far.

And I know it's not the ending, but it's.

It's done.

Stick a fork in them.

Whole thing.

Dead.

There they are.

We found them.

Way down here in the standings.

Yeah.

The Reds are above them.

Sellers.

The Nationals are above them.

Sellers.

The Cardinals are above them.

Sellers.

The Marlins are above them.

Stood paddish.

Bought and sold.

Yep.

That's where they're at.

That's where they're at.

Yeah.

And it's disappointing because.

I wasn't expecting.

I.

If I was thinking like I thought this team was borderline playoff team, like if they if they were going to get in, it was going to be that succeed.

I at least thought they would.

Keep us.

Really engaged through the end of the year.

But it's now on August 13th.

And yeah, like I'm not taking these guys seriously at all.

They're five games below 500.

The Reds are above them in the standings.

The Nationals are above them in the standings.

The Cardinals who started their rebuild eight months ago or so are ahead of them in the standings.

Like we're talking about teams that aren't even really trying to win are currently ahead of this team.

And the Pirates did a lot.

Pirates did a lot this offseason and they put themselves in a better position than where they were previously.

But clearly it wasn't enough.

Clearly they just they didn't end up having the depth is what it came down to.

Like they got the injury bug hurt hit them like it hits everybody.

Right.

And it hit them and they were able to stay afloat for a while.

But it eventually just became too much to overcome.

The starting pitching broke down.

The hitters stopped hitting.

The bullpen was bad all year.

Now the bullpen's back and looking good.

But, the other two things have fallen behind.

It's they can they haven't been able to have a stretch of baseball.

We're just like everything's been working.

It's always been one of three units or two of three units.

And the one unit that wasn't good was really bad.

It's like they just they haven't been able to put it all together at any point in time this season.

And it's yeah, it's disappointing.

That's for sure.

So when I called this team a bunch of losers a couple years ago, I know we like to play that clip.

What clip?

Loser.

You're all a bunch of losers.

But in all reality, that is a giant problem with this organization.

There is a stench with this organization.

That doesn't know how to win.

And they don't bring in the right people to get them out of that funk.

They bring in just, the Don Kelly of the world who Don Kelly might be a good major league manager.

He could figure it out somewhere.

I wouldn't doubt that.

But they need somebody who knows how to win baseball games and just drag a team along.

And they need people and players that know how to do that.

This organization has the stench that like your Cincinnati Bengals have that the Cleveland Browns have.

They haven't been terrible rosters for all those years in the NFL, but they're just losing organizations that have no idea how to win and can't get out of that rut.

The Pirates are in that same situation and they're going to continue to be in that situation until they hire somebody who is just special enough to dig them out of it.

I don't think they have those people in place right now.

I thought maybe Paul Skenes could be that guy to drag them along.

And then if you get a few pieces around them, that could do it.

Honestly, I think that this entire situation has drugged Paul Skenes down with it.

And I don't think Paul Skenes has helped the fact because, guys, we saw the picture of him on the beach.

He doesn't look that in shape.

But they just don't have that person or those people to get them to a point where they are a just quality baseball team.

They're not.

And they won't be until they find whoever that is.

They're not here right now.

I think there's a lot of truth in that.

I do.

That's just what's unfortunate.

I think this is a talented team.

they had the offseason.

We gave plenty of kudos to what they've done.

Now, are there still concerns?

Absolutely.

Ironically enough, the concerns weren't really where they're at right now, like what the actual concerns are.

I guess depth in totality is part of the concern here.

But, we thought the pitching was going to be good.

Really, the biggest concern was they hitting enough?

Were the guys going to rebound that needed to rebound, right?

We said from the get-go, they can add all the free agents.

They can make all the trades they want.

But the guys that are here that need to step up need to step up or else that's not going to matter.

And on the hitting side, that happened.

Bryan Reynolds has stepped up in a big way.

Nick Gonzales offensively has stepped up in a big way.

Cruz, when he was healthy, has stepped up in a big way.

Konnor Griffin coming up here had his initial struggles as any rookie.

And he started performing before the injury, right?

And injuries, of course, happen as well.

But they happen to every team.

they happen to every team.

This organization actually has been very lucky injury-wise over the past few years.

And we've stated that as well.

But you don't earn a paycheck by claiming to be a talented team.

You don't earn a paycheck by saying you can build a farm system when you're a general manager, and front office members.

You earn your paycheck by results.

this is a – how many times did I state this?

It's sad because if we're going back to last year and the year before, this is a results-oriented business.

It is a results-oriented business.

Not a whataboutism-oriented business, right?

It's a results-oriented business.

76 wins, 76 wins, 71 wins.

And right now they're pacing for two more wins than they did in 2023 at 76.

They're basically pacing at 78.

That's just not good enough.

That is just simply not good enough.

And that's just the problem.

You can give all the what-ifs and what-ahs this year, but this is a big year.

And as it stands right now, they're maybe not even sniffing 500.

Well, in a playoff spot.

Jim's on mute.

He kicked himself off.

I love it.

they're not sniffing 500 right now, right?

Like, they'd have to go on a winning streak that we haven't seen this team go on yet in order to do that.

I think they've been on – is it – I don't think they've done a five-game winning streak this year.

I think four is where they're maxed out.

If they've done five, it may have been, like, one – they may have had one five-game winning streak this year.

But – Actually, very early on.

Yeah.

March 31st to April 5th, they had a five-game.

So, they're going to have to do that just to get back to 500.

if you're 500, you're still not really even in the conversation all that much.

Like, the Marlins, the Cardinals, the Phillies, the Diamondbacks, the Padres are all well above 500.

So, like, they've got to do something special to even get back into the conversation where we can take this team even a little bit seriously right now.

But it's – yeah, it sucks.

I want to give a shout-out to Silas here.

He says, can we all agree that it really ended in the blown Cincinnati game when O'Hearn went down?

I knew we weren't out of it then, but that's the day that the music died.

And, DiNardo, I think you and I were on that post-game show.

That was the game where, like, Nick Gonzales threw the ball to the wrong base.

Brandon Lowe missed it.

That allowed the Reds to score the game-winning run in the eighth inning.

O'Hearn comes up to bat in the ninth and gets injured, and, like, it looked bad.

You knew it was probably going to be bad.

And, yeah, like, that was certainly the moment where it was like, damn.

Because that was a series that they needed to win.

And if they could have won that game, that would have been a big win for them.

They lost that game.

They go on to lose three of four against the Reds.

They lose O'Hearn for the year.

Like, that was a pretty pivotal moment in this stretch of games.

Yeah.

It starts at the top, man.

It starts with Bob.

Bob allows the culture.

And the culture is losing.

until he figures out a way to put the right people in place to get to a point where the culture is different around here, it's going to continue to be the same.

Again, 33 years of me being on Earth and four winning seasons.

That is pathetic and unacceptable.

That shouldn't be a real thing.

That shouldn't be possible.

You should be able to luck your way into, God, seven, eight winning seasons within 33 years.

Nope.

That just shows how just awful this organization is.

I want to go back to, like, you mentioned, like, the losers, right?

Just, like, how these guys are a bunch of losers.

And if there was one thing that I did like, Brandon Lowe has won before, right?

Like, there are players that they brought in who have won before.

Marcell Ozuna has won before.

So they brought in some guys who have done that.

But largely, you're still talking about a pretty big core of players that really haven't done it at this level.

And I want to rewind to yesterday, right?

I feel like this is a good segue to the Brandon Lowe quote that Jason Mackey got from him after yesterday's game.

And, asked about what this looks like from a player's perspective.

And, Brandon Lowe goes, I don't think there's lack of effort or lack of fight.

He says that he thinks that the Arizona series, which we talked about that series being, like, the series of the year.

There was a huge series that had a lot of implications.

He said that Arizona series, everyone started putting too much pressure game to game, thinking that if we go out and win four straight or five straight, that's going to secure a wild card spot.

Instead of us going and playing like we did in April or June or whatnot, we somehow let the idea creep in that these games matter more than the previous ones did.

And so on and so forth.

But he goes into, like, there's no additional stress to them.

There's no added thing to it because we can go win 10 in a row.

And so could the teams on a wild card spot.

But I think the thing I took from that is, as players, you don't want to think that like a single game, like you do want to you do want to be grounded.

Right.

But the reality of the situation is those games did matter more than the previous games you had played.

When the games matter more, there is more pressure.

There is more stress.

And it's a matter of how do you react to the added pressure?

How do you react to the added stress?

In this team, the moment, the moment the lights got bright, the moment the games got really big and really important, they just folded.

They just flat out folded.

And I don't know.

I don't know if that changes, if there's more people in there who have won before.

Like, you've got you've got a bunch of players in there that have that were in the same situation in 2024.

Right.

And we know what happened there.

So it seems like this team just did a really bad job of handling the added pressure that comes with late season games that just mean a lot.

He acknowledged it right there.

I think that starts at the top as well.

we.

I don't want to put too much of this on Don Kelly, but I think we saw it start to get to Don Kelly as well.

We saw the ejections.

We saw multiple in a week around that time.

One of them was just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Like.

I think you could argue that the pressure started to wear on him a little bit as well and.

To rewind a little bit, Brandon, we don't have to say that out loud to the media.

We can just keep that part internal.

Like, we don't need to know that the pressure got too high for you.

I have no issue with him saying what he said.

But like, because I think that's the reality of the situation.

Like this team caved.

They came under pressure.

Yeah.

And then I think they also quit at the same time, just like yesterday.

Well.

Quits may be a little harsh, but.

I want to add the Don Kelly quote because after the same game, Don Kelly was asked what Don Kelly said was we have to compete today was not good enough.

I felt like we felt sorry for ourselves.

We didn't compete with the fight that we have had all season.

We have to be better.

We have to dig deep in the clubhouse players, staff, everybody and find a way.

And like the thing about that, I want to start by saying, like, I can appreciate what Brandon Louse said in the sense of.

I don't know.

I'm trying.

Part of me appreciates that in a sense of don't try to do too much.

Go out there and play the game.

This isn't any more important.

Don't add pressure.

like that sense.

Try to keep your people in line.

So not overdoing things because if you're overthinking now, you're throwing to the wrong base.

The problem is they do that already.

But like these two quotes contradict themselves, like ones like, hey, chill out, relax, don't change anything.

Don't worry about anything.

Just whatever.

Right.

Whatever's happening in May.

Just let it happen now, too.

Doesn't matter.

No, out of pressure.

The games are all the same.

And then Don Kelly's like, you guys have lost your fight.

You guys are not like this is not you.

like.

And I guess where I'm getting at, too, is.

I agree more with Don Kelly at this point in time.

And.

Where was this two weeks ago or at least the very least, like a week ago?

My thing is this message just seems a little too little too late because I agree with all this.

But do you need to say that when you lost.

12 or last 15.

Or, when you're starting to skid right at the deadline and things get real tight, like let's get things going here.

Of course, they come out today and win 13 to one.

When they finally had this meeting and message sent to them.

So, I don't I don't know.

Like, yes, I can on one side appreciate what Brandon Lowe's saying.

But I think you also have to understand where you're at.

And maybe you need to fire some guys up.

You could, stop that.

Fire some guys.

Fire some guys out.

Yeah, I think the, like, I don't know if the, if the answer would have been like if during the Arizona series, right?

They had that game that they blew and, that comeback that just fell short.

I don't know if just like laying into those guys at that moment would have been the right idea.

Cause I think they were like, they were battling.

I think that's where I'm getting at too.

Yeah.

This conversation here.

I'm not talking like laying in, but like maybe a firing up and not just to Tyler's point.

I guess it was just like, yeah, the Don Kelly way has been very calm, cool, collected.

It's just another game.

There'll be tomorrow to play.

Maybe at some point it's like let's fire some guys up.

Let's get a little fiery.

Let's get a little energy.

Yeah.

And I don't know if any of that was happening at all.

Really?

Obviously it's hard to get a bunch of energy when you're on a, when you're losing 11 of 14 games, that where is at you, especially at this point in the season.

So I'm not making excuses for Don Kelly.

I think, I think this is where having like an experienced leader, like Tyler mentioned, could have helped, right?

Like having someone who has led a clubhouse in this exact situation before, maybe it goes a little bit different than it did.

Maybe it doesn't.

I don't know.

All I know is that Brandon Lowe acknowledged that the players felt the added pressure.

They put that pressure on themselves and they didn't respond well to it.

And they got to go back to playing loose, playing fun, whatever that is.

And they, today obviously was a good, was a good game, but it's probably a little, probably too little too late at this point.

Right.

Unless you go and do that 10 more times in a row.

so yeah, it's, I think there's plenty of people to blame for this.

Like there's, you can, you can blame everyone.

And like you said, Tyler, you can start at the top.

Like you can definitely start at the top with Bob Nutting.

You can go the step below him with Ben Shurrington.

You can go the step below that with Don Kelly.

You can go the step below that with all the coaching staff.

You can go the step below that with all the players.

Like, I think there's plenty of blame to go around for a lot of people.

but yeah, who knows how this would have gone different if they're, if they had say Terry Francona in that clubhouse as opposed to Don Kelly.

Right.

And I just pulled out a name.

I have no idea.

Francona would have ever wanted this job, but who knows if it would have gone a little different.

Yeah.

So many layers to why this team is in the situation they're in so many layers to it.

It's Donnie.

It's Ben.

It's the players.

It's Bob.

It goes back years.

Like this isn't a one year issue.

This is a seven year failure.

You don't have depth because you failed so many years before.

Can you say that number one more time?

Seven year failure.

That's the biggest thing here.

That's like a problem.

And fight me.

Like, just fight me on this.

Whatever.

I'm talking to you.

I'm talking to the audience, whatever.

But this is why we were talking about this early on.

When early on, like entering into year three, year four of this rebuild.

You got to start showing some winning.

You have to have some desire of winning.

Because again, culture.

It's just sad because, man, this is like just bringing up some horrible memories because I'm just like regurgitating things that we've said on shows for many years.

And I thought we were past that and clearly we're not.

But why was it so important to start getting a winning culture?

Why was it so important to make an emphasis on winning?

Because Bryan Reynolds has done nothing but lose for his entire career.

And folks, his career isn't young anymore.

It's not young anymore.

Eighth season with the Pirates.

He's done nothing but lose.

Has not seen winning yet.

This whole organization has done nothing but seen, winning yet.

And when it's finally at the end of your line here that, like, something has to come together this year because it is year seven.

You've already fired your coach, your manager.

You've put on, the GM has come out and said, I'm more responsible for this than he is.

But we made the decision and he's going to go.

Even though you both said you're tied at the hip.

He went, you stayed.

That was a message.

Travis comes out that next offseason.

We're going to retain him.

Appeared full stop.

Playoffs.

Here we are.

Like, you waited until it was like the last minute.

Like, we have to do something or else this is it.

And no one was prepared.

You didn't have the foundation built.

And here we are.

And it just sucks.

And it just sucks.

And I say you're seven, too, because this is the seventh year.

And we already talked about on Bucco Brew.

How many managers have our GMs have even done this in the life of baseball?

And it's not many.

It's less than a whole hand.

Neil Huntington was in his second year of wildcard birth in year seven.

What, 94 wins or 88, whatever it was that year?

Like, and I'm not trying.

I'm not trying to pin them together.

I'm not trying to, he had Ben has to follow this pattern.

I know things are different.

But still, we're talking about year seven.

The Pirates are the second year of the wildcard.

And we're still trying to sniff 500.

Something's got to give.

You have a trade deadline.

And you talk about starts at the top.

we've handed plenty of blame for a lot of people, a lot of parties.

We discussed this, Tyler.

We discussed this, you and I originally.

And then the deadline, we brought up again, the reports that they're not going to add salary to make moves.

That's that is what happened.

And if you look beforehand, they were shedding salary in creative ways.

Right.

Trading.

They were they were shedding revenue.

They were they were shedding expenses.

Yeah, is what they were doing.

Yeah.

They're shedding money in all different ways.

Right.

The draft.

They traded Akiti.

they're shedding things and they added everyone and the people they added.

Had their contracts paid down more so.

And oh.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Sports Business Journal puts out a tweet today that Sportsnet Pittsburgh is thriving.

That they're projected to finish 17 percent above their forecast.

They're making more money than they projected to make.

And Bob sees a team that's there on the outside looking in, but they need help.

They need help.

And they've shed they've shed money in certain ways.

And they're making more money than they even projected on Sportsnet Pittsburgh.

And Bob says.

And Bob says.

Good luck.

I'm not saying the trade deadline and add these pieces would have changed anything or much, but.

Certainly didn't help.

I know they got the bullpen help that they needed and we gave strong kudos to that.

But we've seen how they are against left handed pitching and that's not been fixed.

We see the problems of starting pitching and that's not been fixed.

And here we are.

Here we are.

And the biggest problem is those two things that weren't addressed.

Those are the reasons you're here right now.

Not the bullpen.

Yeah.

We haven't even seen the new pitchers pitch because the other two can't get them to the bullpen.

I also want to point out that, 2024, this team was in a similar position.

I think we can all agree like the caliber of talent on that 2024 team wasn't quite where it was on this year's team.

But they were in a similar position in terms of their record, games out of the postseason, all of that.

And they decided to just like the softest buys of all time, right?

Like you add Jalen Beeks, Isaiah Kiner-Falefa and Brian De La Cruz to a team that was above 500.

I think there were two games out of a playoff spot at that point.

Like they were they were just as in it as this team was.

And obviously we know how 2024 went, didn't finish very well.

They basically, were terrible the last two months of that season.

But I think what really angers me is like that gave you something to build on, right?

Like Paul Skenes's won the one, won the rookie of the year that year.

You had it wasn't really a core of position players like Bryan Reynolds.

you still have some guys, right?

But you went out there in the offseason after that year and you targeted Adam Frazier.

Those Rowdy Tellez offseason, too.

So you go out there, you get Rowdy Tellez right off the bat.

You get Adam Frazier.

You get Tommy Pham.

Those are those are your acquisitions.

You made one trade with getting Spencer Horwitz, which you nailed that.

It was before.

Was Rowdy before that?

Yeah.

Rowdy and Spencer.

Yeah, you're right.

Rowdy was the year before.

Yeah.

But so you but you go out there and you your offseason was the Spencer Horwitz trade.

And then you sign Adam Frazier and Tommy Pham.

Adam Frazier, who.

Just is old and not who he was.

Tommy Pham was blind when you signed him.

Literally couldn't see the first few months of the year.

And like, that's what you did.

Like you were in a position to add on from that team and say, OK, yeah, you know what?

We're going to make a push this year.

Last year in spring training, it was all, the time to win is now.

Well, like you didn't show it.

You didn't do anything during the offseason to say that the time to win was now.

And so, like, you just punted last year.

This year, you finally had like they should have done this year's offseason last year.

We should have been crying about this, these last two weeks last year.

Right.

And then this year, you get a few people.

Yeah.

You get a few people back.

Last year's a playoff team.

Yeah.

I think that's just like you in comparing this to the only good pirates team that any of us can remember, right?

Those early 2000 teens years.

Like, what if last year was our 2012?

Right.

And the year before that was our 2011 because 2011 was a similar experience.

Like the pirates started off good.

They were in a position and they just felt they just came up short.

2012.

They looked even better.

They collapsed at the end.

2013.

They finally, like, put it all together and got over the hump.

This year should be 2013.

But it feels like this year's 2012.

Not quite to the level of a collapse of 2012 was, but it's feeling more 2012.

It feels 2011 to me.

Yeah, it honestly, yeah, actually feels more 2012.

Yeah, I agree with everything you just said.

Like, they didn't do enough last year.

It's let into this year.

It's, one of the biggest reasons they're in this spot they're in right now is because of the lack of depth that they have.

And the reason they have a lack of depth is because they missed a good bit over the last handful of years here.

It's hard to handle as many injuries as they had.

you lose three very key pieces of your offense.

That's going to hurt any team.

But they don't have a shortstop, guys.

They legitimately just don't have a shortstop.

That's pathetic.

They have Konnor Griffin in nothing.

They don't have a third baseman.

It's the same time.

Well, their third baseman is having to play shortstop, yeah.

This organization targeted hundreds of shortstops through their tenure.

And to your point, they don't have a shortstop.

Jim, like, squinted like he's going to call Jacob Gonzalez a shortstop.

And I just can't stand for that.

I'm not saying he's a good shortstop, but he is technically a shortstop.

Well, technically, Nick Gonzales is a third baseman.

I don't know.

Okay, I guess.

Yeah.

It just, it sucks.

This sucks.

Sure does.

Thank you, Silas.

He says, yeah, even worse.

Like I said, last year was one of the best pitching seasons that we'll ever see anybody do, right?

Punted the year Paul Skenes won the Cy Young.

And yeah, you can't just assume that a pitcher is going to continue to pitch like that forever, as we have seen this year.

You can't assume that a staff's going to pitch like that.

I think I brought this up a couple years ago, talking about this group and how it was during the hard parts figured out part of the little speech I have of they have the pitching staff to do this.

But the Mets had it at one point, too.

And then all of a sudden you snap your fingers.

It's gone.

And it sure as hell looks like it's gone.

I'm not ready to stamp it gone yet.

Because also to the other side of your point here, Tyler, it's one of the things that we also knew and recognized about this staff.

It's very talented.

Once again, talent doesn't mean wins.

You don't get paid because of talent.

Very talented, but it's very young.

We got it.

We understood it.

Why they made so many trades, dealing with starting pitchers, they needed offense, but this team absolutely needed some depth.

how many times we say, go find out lefty, go find out lefty, go find out lefty.

They brought in your kitty and it was like, well, like, I'm okay with this.

It's a one and a half million dollar deal.

Like that's fairly cheap.

Maybe they, that's like another depth piece, but they still need like, let's bring in something else.

something is a little, it's a shame.

You don't need to go out there and spend a ton of money.

they didn't need to go out there and go and spend and get a marquee left-hander.

we had names out there.

Just go get someone who's in the five, maybe a shade under $5 million deal.

Maybe a tad more than a one and a half in her kitty.

But just go out there and get someone who's in that, in that mold and bring them on because lefties play up in PNC park.

It makes sense.

And this team absolutely needs the depth.

And now to Tyler's point, it just shown, it just showed a lot of them.

there's talent there, but Bubba went through his downs.

Ashcraft went through his downs, a lot of ups.

And I'm not pooping on Ashcraft season.

He's been the best pitcher, I think, by far on this team.

Paul Skenes fell apart.

No one saw that.

But, for the newer guys, they all had their ups and downs.

And then, of course, Jared Jones was off of injury anyways, too.

He came back, ups and downs.

Carmen can't be a starter.

Mitch broke his arm.

Yeah, there was just absolutely no depth to the starting pitching.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter when Skenes turns into what he did.

Like, if Paul Skenes is not going to be the Paul Skenes that we know, this team's not winning anything.

that's a good point.

Like, in order for this team to do what it needs to, like, in order for this team to win a World Series, like, if we're going there, Paul Skenes needs to be dominant.

Now, I think they showed us earlier that, like, Paul Skenes probably doesn't need to be dominant to get into the postseason.

He just has to not suck, and he sucked for these last two months.

Because, yeah, if the Pirates have a 500 record and Paul Skenes starts right now, like, they're in it.

We're not talking about it being over.

But he can't suck.

And he sucked.

And he sucked.

His defense also sucked.

There are a lot of factors, I believe, into why he sucks.

The defense is one of them.

The fact that the off-speed and the breaking stuff isn't playing up as well as it has is another reason.

There are a lot of reasons to it.

But he has sucked.

But mostly, the dad bod is why he sucked.

As we're coming to terms now.

Yeah.

That's the reason.

But also, like...

That's so silly.

I love it.

It's hilarious.

But one, like, it's the day after...

Like, literally the day after your start where you couldn't throw 97, everybody's calling you fat.

And then you're like, what am I going to do?

I'm going to go walk on Miami Beach shirtless with my supermodel girlfriend as a comparison of bodies there.

It probably wasn't a smart decision by Paul.

But also, he's not...

come on.

He's not fat, you guys.

He's...

He's not fat.

Do you guys really...

Like, he's not a corner or a wide receiver in the NFL.

He's not a shooting guard in the NBA.

Like, you understand what pitchers...

Like, in corner...

Like, do you understand most baseball...

Brandon Lowe is non-athletic looking.

He should be down in South Beach bagging Paul's groceries at the Publix.

Like, he's just...

He's the assistant manager at the Publix.

Like, baseball players...

And this isn't like shade.

Baseball players aren't your typical prototypical athletes.

But also, let's put it this way.

Do you think Ben Roethlisberger looked any different than Paul Skenes's?

People are trying to vouch for him to be a Hall of Fame quarterback.

Probably worse.

Right?

That's what a pitcher in MLB looks like.

For the most part.

If not bigger.

You need a little fix.

Yeah, this fat thing is...

It's so out of line.

Yeah, it's so funny.

That it's so funny, though.

It's funny.

And just like, the whole world turned on Paul one day and just said, Fat.

Everyone had their reasons.

Everyone had their reasons.

And then all one day, it all came together as one thing.

Silas asks, how fast did Bartolo Cologne throw?

Most of Cologne's career was like pre-pitch effects days.

So there's not even accurate readings.

But once that came into effect, before he hit 40, he was 92, 93.

Then he got really fat.

Yeah.

And he's breaking in there.

Towards the end there.

Yeah.

But he was still...

Hey, even at age 45, he was at 89.5 on his fastball.

It is funny, though, because I think everyone has had that thought, like DiNardo said, in the last month or two of like, man, he's out of shape.

And like you said, everybody on one day.

Fat.

Because like Jim said, like he picks that day.

No one's going to notice me and Livvy on South Beach.

That was the worst day to do that, Paul.

The worst possible day.

Across from Wet Willies, no one's going to see us.

And truthfully, the reason we're all probably saying he's out of shape is because we don't want to admit he might be hurt.

Basically.

Yeah, I don't think he's hurt.

I don't think he's hurt at all.

Like, I truly think this is just...

Fat.

This is who he is right now.

You think he's fat?

I don't think he's fat.

It's just big phone, guys.

Just a little thick.

Yeah, he's not, he's not like lean or anything.

Like, he's not wearing, he's not wearing lean clothes, but yeah, he's not fat.

No.

it's definitely a dad bod, though.

Hey, dad bods are in.

Right?

They were like five years ago.

So.

We got anything else to talk about?

I don't know.

I'm going to go to sheets and get the schemes.

How about, how about, I'm going to Braxton Ashcraft today.

Yes.

That was, yeah, big performance.

That's like a, that's a game that I've been waiting for Paul Skenes to put together all year long.

And he hasn't.

but yeah, what a, what a start by Braxton Ashcraft.

You thought that he was wearing down a little bit and what a response.

Like the efficiency, the strikeouts plus the efficiency is pretty incredible.

First pitcher in major league history to pitch a complete game, strike out 10 batters and throw 85 or less pitches.

First time that's ever happened ever wild for 150 years.

No one's ever done that before until today.

Can I actually ask a real question on that though?

What did you guys think about letting him go the whole way?

I know there's a lot of concern about the innings and you're both good with it.

85 pitches.

Let them go.

Those are, those are low stress pitches.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would have pulled him.

No.

Oh, was the, Oh, woo.

He threw nine innings.

Woo.

I would have liked to see Luke Weaver throw at some point.

Can I play with the shiny new toy?

You need Luke Weaver for this 12 game run that we're about to put up.

If Braxton Ashcraft threw 85 pitches in six innings, you, we wouldn't be talking about that.

We wouldn't be talking about this at all.

So what's the difference that he threw it in nine innings opposed to six?

Yeah.

Because they were up by eight runs.

Who cares?

Okay.

That's why they pulled him on the sixth.

He didn't get a Maddox.

Anyhow.

I know.

I gave up a home run.

I would have pulled him honestly after the seven.

Jack, we're going to leave that, leave that tidbit out.

He says, I heard pitch count started in 1988.

So yeah, we're just going to, before 1988, no pitcher ever struck out 10 batters in a game.

Don't look that's true.

With all the contact hitters back in the day, no one struck out 10 batters, right?

Don't ever.

They knew how to play the game, right?

I'm just saying, I don't think the risk was worth the reward of what risk.

He was at 73 pitches, 85.

Yeah.

You can give them a little rest here.

We've been talking about finding ways to give this guy rest.

They did.

They let him do five pitches.

Yeah.

He only threw 85 pitches.

You guys are talking about putting him in the damn bullpen.

Yeah.

He threw 85 pitches, Tyler.

This is a bad take by you for the pitching Yinza wanting to take out pitchers at 73 pitches.

In that case, yes.

I just don't see the point of leaving him out there in a blowout.

Oh shit.

Damn it.

Security's here.

Can't come back tonight, Tyler.

You can come back tomorrow.

Anyways, big three game series coming up at home.

They basically need to sweep.

Pirates need to sweep the series against the Red Sox.

And they're facing two lefties and Sonny Gray.

Yay.

Sonny Gray.

Who's a Cy Young candidate now.

Yeah.

He's good.

But also like it's the Red Sox who I know they've haven't been as strong lately.

They've been skidding.

So you're going to catch them.

Now's a good time.

Not when they've won 38 in a row.

But, they're still, they're still pretty damn good.

Yeah.

Pretty good team playing good baseball and two lefties and Sonny Gray.

Yeah.

Well, we'll see.

I said they have to sweep this series like two out of three doesn't even cut it.

Yeah.

That's what I want to come in the show.

We're saying it's done and it is essentially over.

it's over.

We, they had to, they couldn't lose those two series and they're in such of a hole right now.

It's over, but this team better not be sitting here in their mind saying it's over and laid out.

They still better be fighting.

They certainly be thinking that they have a shot at the playoffs.

Brandon, allow, keep sending your message or whatever that they have to keep doing what they need to do to rattle off their 10 wins.

Cause you need to rattle off 10 wins.

You need to rattle off, rattle off 10 wins.

You have to.

So do what you need to do to do that.

And then we'll start believing in you again.

But I think the very rational thought process right now, when you look at everything that it's over, but don't think it's over guys go out there and play real us back in as

much as I'm going to hate you when you do it, real us back in.

Yeah.

it's a six game homestand go five in one.

Yeah.

Go five in one and make us believe again.

Yeah.

I don't have much.

And you guys need to keep believing.

Well, FanDuel doesn't believe plus one 22 tomorrow on the money line with bubble on the hill.

that's probably about right.

Oh, again, against the lefty.

Yeah, that's probably about right.

They're finally figuring out the Pirates can't hit lefties.

You know what?

Let's, you know what we should do is Jared Triolo, Rafael Flores Jr.

Just put them one, two, put them one, two in the lineup.

Just let them rake.

YOLO.

He ain't ready, but call up Cruz.

Well, yeah, I do anticipate Cruz will be with the team tomorrow.

So that's another thing.

Yeah.

Cruz should be activated tomorrow.

To put your faith in him right now that he, like he's the reason this team's going to win.

It's a tough ask.

But you gotta right now.

Otherwise, you know what's going to happen.

Two lefties too.

It's a loss.

Has Merlin come a little bit alive of recent?

Yeah, he had a decent series.

he had a home run robbed from him too.

Right.

Yesterday.

Yep.

There's your one, two, three.

And then Cruz.

Let's actually, let's lead off with Triolo.

Triolo lead off.

Flores number two.

Valdez number three.

Cruz four.

Cruz four.

Let's go get them dubs.

All right.

All right.

I think that's enough.

Yeah.

All right.

Okay.

Thanks.

Like the video.

Subscribe to the page.

Make sure you're checking out offbeat every morning.

Alex is putting out some really good stuff.

If you haven't checked out his, he did a different one a couple of days ago where he was in Altoona interviewed Murf Gray.

So there was a, an offbeat with Murf Gray on it.

So make sure you check that out.

That interview honestly got me really excited to like see Murf Gray at the hot corner, especially with all the issues at third base.

the pirates have had the season.

It's like, right.

Let's get, let's get Murph up here.

He's mashing.

One of those scenarios where if they trade him, it sounded like he was trade bit, trade bait.

If they would have traded him and get a big piece, like, yeah, it made sense.

But now that he's here.

Yeah.

I'm excited for him.

He's a pirate still.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That is the one thing looking back to the back, the trade deadline is they really didn't give up anything that feels like it's going to hurt too bad.

Boom.

Tyler hates Sammy.

Well, yeah, I was more than okay.

Giving him up.

But all in all, it just means more looking towards the future.

And that's the problem.

So here's to the future.

See you guys tomorrow.

See you guys.

Anything else, guys?

All right.

No.

Bye-bye.

All right.

That wraps up this episode of North Shore Nine.

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